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Old 05-19-2018, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Putnam Valley, NY
170 posts, read 159,297 times
Reputation: 393

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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
My kid worked at a Westchester coffee house during college summer breaks. It's permanent employees worked two or three jobs - over 60 hours a week to afford the basics.
And where did they live? Probably didn't even live in Westchester, right? I worked at a gas station in Northern Westchester near the CT border when I still lived with my parents in North Salem, and our full-time employees came from all over the place. Lake Carmel, Danbury, Bronx, Bridgeport... We had a mechanic who came down from Poughkeepsie every day. Our morning guy actually owned a small house up in Dover Plains, but he worked his ****ing ass off, 72+ hour weeks for 10+ years, to be able to afford it... The only ones who lived locally were the owner (of course), and the rotating cast of town kids/young adults who lived with their parents.

Truth is, for people in low-to-middle income jobs, living in Westchester isn't even an option, unless they cram in with 100 roommates in a tiny apartment in some less-than-stellar neighborhood in Peekskill, or have somebody else helping to foot the bill. $150k household, in 2018, in most of Westchester, will be gone faster than you can say your name, especially if you have kids. $42k, the true beginning of "middle class"? Forget it, that's poverty in Westchester.
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
3,699 posts, read 2,425,287 times
Reputation: 8703
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
Westchester IS a struggle for the middle class. In fact, it is nearly impossible for the real middle class -"$42,000 to $126,000 for a household of three people." Even with upping the household income to $150,000, it is still hard.

My kid worked at a Westchester coffee house during college summer breaks. It's permanent employees worked two or three jobs - over 60 hours a week to afford the basics. Two or three jobs is necessary as employers will only hire part-time workers so they do not have to provide benefits. Those people are closer to middle class than the OP.

Those workers are struggling in a very real way, the OP isn't.
$42K-$125K is considered middle class depending upon where you live in the US for a 3-person HH. You can do it on $42k here and pretty much live like a king here on the $125K.

It's insane having to work 2-3 jobs over 60 hours a week just to afford the basics; I would not call that middle class--that is called struggling or barely working class. I've been there/done that when I was first starting out in my career and it's no fun

Wages haven't kept pace with expenses; it's just more evident in some areas than in others.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:36 PM
 
77,840 posts, read 105,877,912 times
Reputation: 16670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Joseph View Post
$42K-$125K is considered middle class depending upon where you live in the US for a 3-person HH. You can do it on $42k here and pretty much live like a king here on the $125K.

It's insane having to work 2-3 jobs over 60 hours a week just to afford the basics; I would not call that middle class--that is called struggling or barely working class. I've been there/done that when I was first starting out in my career and it's no fun

Wages haven't kept pace with expenses; it's just more evident in some areas than in others.
^This...People may not realize that there is a large portion of the state where that income range is legitimately the range of middle class due to a lower cost of living. Heck, I dare say that you can get a decent home priced at the top income figure in those same areas of the state.

With this said, that is a high income anywhere and the school aspect makes me think of why people aren’t pushing for county school districts with zones.
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:46 AM
 
30,335 posts, read 43,108,407 times
Reputation: 12855
Bottom line, you live in the Northeast you are getting jerked

A decent 3 bedroom for rent in the Bronx is $2,000 a month

You guys are only 1 county over, once the Bronx gets gentrified (and it will, trust me) that's when it will get fun

Face it, there are neighborhoods where ppl with money wouldnt be caught dead in before, that those same ppl are moving into now. Tell me if I'm lying.

Ppl in NYC are moving to Newark, NJ! Who saw that coming?
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:50 AM
 
30,335 posts, read 43,108,407 times
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Look, you guys dont read about crap like this on Metro-North?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/17/n...id=fb-nytmetro
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:24 AM
 
1,183 posts, read 590,218 times
Reputation: 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Look, you guys dont read about crap like this on Metro-North?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/17/n...id=fb-nytmetro
Seventh - you are missing a big-ass decision-maker in the room here. Yes, many people know there are plenty of nice places to be had in the city - for adults to live in. Just wait until that guy in the NYT story has a kid - or wait until that kid gets to middle school.


Given the stranglehold special interest groups have over city schools, even "gentrification" is going to take a heck of a long time to drag those schools as to where they should be. Even then - even if you've managed to improve academic school culture - where is the school's swimming pool, the huge school sports fields, the school's performing arts center? Few and far between. The bulk of urban schools will not be competing for people wanting to give their kids a good, rounded education.


But MNRR is very good for reading or snoozing for sure.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:45 AM
 
30,335 posts, read 43,108,407 times
Reputation: 12855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chint View Post
Seventh - you are missing a big-ass decision-maker in the room here. Yes, many people know there are plenty of nice places to be had in the city - for adults to live in. Just wait until that guy in the NYT story has a kid - or wait until that kid gets to middle school.


Given the stranglehold special interest groups have over city schools, even "gentrification" is going to take a heck of a long time to drag those schools as to where they should be. Even then - even if you've managed to improve academic school culture - where is the school's swimming pool, the huge school sports fields, the school's performing arts center? Few and far between. The bulk of urban schools will not be competing for people wanting to give their kids a good, rounded education.


But MNRR is very good for reading or snoozing for sure.
Well the way gentrification usually works is the ppl who don't have kids come in and fix it up into a nice area, then the families move in

This is how it went for certain neighborhoods in NYC during the late 1990s-early 2000s

Families are never the first ppl to gentrify an area by rule of thumb

Thats beginning to change now, and it's indicative of how crappy the market currently is for the "middle" and "upper middle" class.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Tarrytown, NY
2 posts, read 1,801 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by demographer View Post
Yup, I can certainly understand why you'd say that. So:

Monthly take-home, after maxing out 401ks, is about $25,000-$26,000.

Mortgage/taxes: $4500
Health insurance: $2000 (no workplace contribution)
529s for two kids: $1200
Car-related expenses + train/parking: $1500
Utilities: $1000
Misc. home expenses/maintenance: $1000
Childcare: $3000
Extra-curriculars: $500
Food/leisure -- I don't add this up usually... maybe $1500-$2000, depending on how much entertaining we're doing and how much we're working too much and ordering in?
Extra retirement saving: $1200
General saving: $3000

Then there's a vacation or two each year, and camp.

After that, there's a couple thousand left, which we easily blow on clothes, etc. for all four of us. Nothing out of line for our income level. Today I ordered some Old Navy pajamas for my kids, some diapers, a new water bottle for my son because he keeps losing the damn thing, and a new carseat.

So where's the crazy spending?
Hi- I registered on city data because of this thread! I'm shocked- not to say you are complaining, but it's just hard for me to wrap my head around having spending issues on that kind of income. My wife and I gross 1/4th of that, live in Tarrytown with 2 kids, and live comfortably. We are not saving nearly like you are, and I wish we were, but we still have good 401k investments and other investing/savings going.

Now I skipped one or two pages so maybe it was said, but just looking at the above numbers:

you have $8400 a month that goes into savings/investments.
Note: that is over $100,000 a year of savings. Half, or more of that gets invested and grows and grows and grows.

You can have passive income making you a reasonable salary in 5-10 years based on that savings, and it will just get exponentially larger.

Maybe it's just a different tier of living that I am not exposed to, but there is so much spending and savings with that type of income.
Sign up for Mint or some budget/spending tracking software and see how well you are doing...
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:20 AM
 
820 posts, read 931,630 times
Reputation: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironlex View Post
Higher taxes have very little to do with school quality. There are fantastically performing schools in areas where the taxes are low but the students come from families that value education. It is all about the students.
Where in Westchester has low taxes and top-ranked schools? It exists in CT (Greenwich, Darien, Westport), but the home prices reflect that.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:09 PM
 
10 posts, read 25,810 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by allanny13 View Post
Where in Westchester has low taxes and top-ranked schools? It exists in CT (Greenwich, Darien, Westport), but the home prices reflect that.
Perhaps not "top ranked" but Harrison comes to mind.

Last edited by CardiffGiant; 05-21-2018 at 12:18 PM..
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