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Old 01-14-2021, 01:49 PM
 
945 posts, read 953,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 987ABC View Post
You are clueless. Charging decisions are made after arrest. If someone has personal use drugs on them then the charge will be a 220.03. Absent any serious conviction/arrest record none of these kids will be convicted of a crime or serve any jail time. Yes, the rich kid will see his family spend $$$ on a high priced attorney. But the poor kid with the Public Defender will see the same result.

If you want to start a new thread on a topic you know nothing about, have at it.
Keep living in your fantasy world.
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:44 AM
 
718 posts, read 728,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
Keep living in your fantasy world.
If I am living in a fantasy world, then please explain what is incorrect about what I have said. Please make specific logic-based arguments based on real world phenomenon. For instance, when police encounter a rich white kid with misdemeanor weight Article 220 substances, what happens that is different than when police encounter same with a poor black kid? Please educate me, so that I can stop living in my fantasy world.
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:58 AM
 
945 posts, read 953,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 987ABC View Post
If I am living in a fantasy world, then please explain what is incorrect about what I have said. Please make specific logic-based arguments based on real world phenomenon. For instance, when police encounter a rich white kid with misdemeanor weight Article 220 substances, what happens that is different than when police encounter same with a poor black kid? Please educate me, so that I can stop living in my fantasy world.
I offered already, you made your choice. You seem to want to live in your fantasy world. Please tell me how the unicorn rides are. I am sure they are fun.
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Old 01-19-2021, 02:33 PM
 
718 posts, read 728,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
Keep living in your fantasy world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
I offered already, you made your choice. You seem to want to live in your fantasy world. Please tell me how the unicorn rides are. I am sure they are fun.
You have offered nothing. You are the one living in a fantasy world. You know nothing about this topic.
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Old 01-19-2021, 03:03 PM
 
945 posts, read 953,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 987ABC View Post
You have offered nothing. You are the one living in a fantasy world. You know nothing about this topic.
Nope. It is you who know nothing about the impact of wealth on treatment and criminal defense.
Please tell us all about the sasquatch neighbors, or the leprechauns you hang with in fantasy world.

The impact of wealth on treatment and criminal defense is the comments that were made before you chimed in. Then you for some reason inserted your own weird position that no one here raised. You said, "Anyone - rich, poor, black, white - will suffer no criminal conviction or jail the first time they are caught with misdemeanor weight drugs (NY defines marihuana separately). If they get caught a few more times, they will be offered Drug Court and various other programs. Again, no one will go to jail."

No one here ever mentioned any specific offense, certainly not anyone having an arrest for possession of drugs, and you started to argue with yourself here. All I said was the wealth impacts the availability of treatments and criminal defense. Then you made up an argument to have with yourself and added race into the discussion.

Wealth greatly impacts the availability of drug, alcohol, and many other treatments associated with criminal charges, wealth greatly impacts the decision to arrest, which means wealth greatly impacts later arrests, wealth greatly impacts hiring a defense attorney or relying on a court appointed attorney, your attorney greatly impacts pleas, wealth impacts what you can do in a plea, wealth impacts the criminal justice system in ways too great to discuss here. Wealth is a nice thing to have.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:08 AM
 
718 posts, read 728,236 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
Nope. It is you who know nothing about the impact of wealth on treatment and criminal defense.
Please tell us all about the sasquatch neighbors, or the leprechauns you hang with in fantasy world.

The impact of wealth on treatment and criminal defense is the comments that were made before you chimed in. Then you for some reason inserted your own weird position that no one here raised. You said, "Anyone - rich, poor, black, white - will suffer no criminal conviction or jail the first time they are caught with misdemeanor weight drugs (NY defines marihuana separately). If they get caught a few more times, they will be offered Drug Court and various other programs. Again, no one will go to jail."

No one here ever mentioned any specific offense, certainly not anyone having an arrest for possession of drugs, and you started to argue with yourself here. All I said was the wealth impacts the availability of treatments and criminal defense. Then you made up an argument to have with yourself and added race into the discussion.

Wealth greatly impacts the availability of drug, alcohol, and many other treatments associated with criminal charges, wealth greatly impacts the decision to arrest, which means wealth greatly impacts later arrests, wealth greatly impacts hiring a defense attorney or relying on a court appointed attorney, your attorney greatly impacts pleas, wealth impacts what you can do in a plea, wealth impacts the criminal justice system in ways too great to discuss here. Wealth is a nice thing to have.
Again, you have demonstrated that your only connection to the criminal justice system is the Law and Order episodes you watch on tv.

The original poster asked about drug problems amongst kids in lower Westchester, and whether it was worse in some towns as opposed to others. Then two posters (one of whom was you) gratuitously expanded the discussion with claims about wealth on treatment and criminal defense. It was not me who did this. I simply refuted the claims, because in the present, such is no longer true with regard to drug arrests/prosecutions in lower NYS.

The fact that you think my position (which you negatively spin as being "inserted", as if you are the only one who can insert a claim into a thread) is "weird" proves that you are speaking in platitudes about something you know nothing about. I will repeat it here: "Anyone - rich, poor, black, white - will suffer no criminal conviction or jail the first time they are caught with misdemeanor weight drugs (NY defines marihuana separately). If they get caught a few more times, they will be offered Drug Court and various other programs. Again, no one will go to jail." This is simply a fact regarding present day drug cases in the courts in NYC and its near NY suburbs. And it directly refutes the claim that you "inserted" into the thread.

As I also said in my original post, it is not 1988 anymore. It used to be true that when a rich kid got arrested on a drug possession matter, he or she will call mommy or daddy, they will call a lawyer, the lawyer calls the police and talks them into a Desk Appearance Ticket, as opposed to being detained, sometimes for more than a day, waiting for arraignment. This dynamic is gone, because under NY law at present, all misdemeanor drug possession cases must be handled with a DAT. So this means that the rich kid and the poor kid both get quickly released with DATs. Sure, the rich kid still calls the lawyer, etc., but the end result is the same for all now. Everyone gets a DAT.

It used to also be true that at arraignment (whether it's after arrest or after DAT) bail could be set. The rich kid posts it and goes home, while the poor kid can't, and goes to jail. Being stuck in jail, the poor kid is under great pressure to take bad plea deals to get out. Again, this does not happen anymore, because all Article 220 offenses (except for the one at the extreme top which very rarely occurs) no longer qualify for bail. So now, the poor kids get released just like the rich one. It's an automatic release, whether you lawyer is paid well, or not at all.

Now when you move to ultimate disposition of the case, prosecutorial culture has moved towards an ACD with a small amount of treatment for persons with little to no history of arrests. This means these cases will result in a dismissal and be fully sealed if the treatment is performed. But wait ... as you claim, only rich kids can afford treatment. Well, maybe at certain facilities. But the poor kid has access to several organizations that provide such treatment free of charge. The poor kid, therefore, has the same access as the rich kid. The Court doesn't care which program the defendant uses. As for the comment about the rich kid going off to a country club clinic in California (made by another poster), a lawyer should be disbarred if he or she tells their client that this is necessary to favorably dispose of a simple drug possession case. It would be like amputating a leg when the patient has but a simple scratch on his knee.

For the kids that get arrested over and over again, and/or get caught with a large quantity of drugs (which is rare), poor and rich kids alike are routinely offered programs such as Drug Court, or worse, DTAP. These programs are at no cost to the participant. You don't need a high priced lawyer to get Drug Court. And you don't need any money to pay for it. Public Defender/Legal Aid/Assigned Counsel know how to fill out the Drug Court form just like the rich kid's lawyer does. Drug Court and DTAP are very difficult programs, and not every defendant chooses them. But they are broadly available, and you don't need a skilled or connected lawyer to gain entry. A core principal of these programs is uniform treatment of all participants. Everyone, rich or poor, high priced lawyer or government paid lawyer, is treated the same. To a fault, they are administered this way.

As for the decision to arrest, your posts are comical. With all the checks and balances, and video and audio recordings, and oversight that goes on with police departments these days, how many cops are going to just pretend they didn't recover drugs from a rich kid, and then later in their shift push through an identical arrest with a poor kid? What are they going to do with the drugs, throw them in the woods? Especially when they know, rich and poor alike, nothing extremely punitive will happen anyway. So, they process all such arrests. As to the specific charges, they field test and weigh the drugs in order to determine the offense charged. In most instances, it will be misdemeanor weight, in which case there is only one offense available to charge - PL 220.03. There is no better or different charge to which a rich kid can benefit. And they are not going to risk their career by faking a felony charge against a poor kid, which will only be refuted by the lab when the real testing occurs. So, all these kids, rich and poor, are going to be charged, and the charge will be based simply on what they possessed and how much it weighed. In NYC, the charging decisions are made by prosecutors, and again, they have no choice but to base it on what is possessed and how much. There is no discretion. Have you seen who is running the DA offices in NYC and nearby?

But sure, come back with another useless word salad telling me I live in a fantasy world. And I am sure it will lack specifics, facts and law. The only thing you have said that is correct is the very last thing you have said. "Wealth is a nice thing to have." I agree. But it is not a necessary thing to have as to the discussion at hand. Of course, people who don't know what they are talking about may not have a way of knowing this.
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Old 01-20-2021, 12:10 PM
 
945 posts, read 953,671 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by 987ABC View Post
Again, you have demonstrated that your only connection to the criminal justice system is the Law and Order episodes you watch on tv.

The original poster asked about drug problems amongst kids in lower Westchester, and whether it was worse in some towns as opposed to others. Then two posters (one of whom was you) gratuitously expanded the discussion with claims about wealth on treatment and criminal defense. It was not me who did this. I simply refuted the claims, because in the present, such is no longer true with regard to drug arrests/prosecutions in lower NYS.

The fact that you think my position (which you negatively spin as being "inserted", as if you are the only one who can insert a claim into a thread) is "weird" proves that you are speaking in platitudes about something you know nothing about. I will repeat it here: "Anyone - rich, poor, black, white - will suffer no criminal conviction or jail the first time they are caught with misdemeanor weight drugs (NY defines marihuana separately). If they get caught a few more times, they will be offered Drug Court and various other programs. Again, no one will go to jail." This is simply a fact regarding present day drug cases in the courts in NYC and its near NY suburbs. And it directly refutes the claim that you "inserted" into the thread.

As I also said in my original post, it is not 1988 anymore. It used to be true that when a rich kid got arrested on a drug possession matter, he or she will call mommy or daddy, they will call a lawyer, the lawyer calls the police and talks them into a Desk Appearance Ticket, as opposed to being detained, sometimes for more than a day, waiting for arraignment. This dynamic is gone, because under NY law at present, all misdemeanor drug possession cases must be handled with a DAT. So this means that the rich kid and the poor kid both get quickly released with DATs. Sure, the rich kid still calls the lawyer, etc., but the end result is the same for all now. Everyone gets a DAT.

It used to also be true that at arraignment (whether it's after arrest or after DAT) bail could be set. The rich kid posts it and goes home, while the poor kid can't, and goes to jail. Being stuck in jail, the poor kid is under great pressure to take bad plea deals to get out. Again, this does not happen anymore, because all Article 220 offenses (except for the one at the extreme top which very rarely occurs) no longer qualify for bail. So now, the poor kids get released just like the rich one. It's an automatic release, whether you lawyer is paid well, or not at all.

Now when you move to ultimate disposition of the case, prosecutorial culture has moved towards an ACD with a small amount of treatment for persons with little to no history of arrests. This means these cases will result in a dismissal and be fully sealed if the treatment is performed. But wait ... as you claim, only rich kids can afford treatment. Well, maybe at certain facilities. But the poor kid has access to several organizations that provide such treatment free of charge. The poor kid, therefore, has the same access as the rich kid. The Court doesn't care which program the defendant uses. As for the comment about the rich kid going off to a country club clinic in California (made by another poster), a lawyer should be disbarred if he or she tells their client that this is necessary to favorably dispose of a simple drug possession case. It would be like amputating a leg when the patient has but a simple scratch on his knee.

For the kids that get arrested over and over again, and/or get caught with a large quantity of drugs (which is rare), poor and rich kids alike are routinely offered programs such as Drug Court, or worse, DTAP. These programs are at no cost to the participant. You don't need a high priced lawyer to get Drug Court. And you don't need any money to pay for it. Public Defender/Legal Aid/Assigned Counsel know how to fill out the Drug Court form just like the rich kid's lawyer does. Drug Court and DTAP are very difficult programs, and not every defendant chooses them. But they are broadly available, and you don't need a skilled or connected lawyer to gain entry. A core principal of these programs is uniform treatment of all participants. Everyone, rich or poor, high priced lawyer or government paid lawyer, is treated the same. To a fault, they are administered this way.

As for the decision to arrest, your posts are comical. With all the checks and balances, and video and audio recordings, and oversight that goes on with police departments these days, how many cops are going to just pretend they didn't recover drugs from a rich kid, and then later in their shift push through an identical arrest with a poor kid? What are they going to do with the drugs, throw them in the woods? Especially when they know, rich and poor alike, nothing extremely punitive will happen anyway. So, they process all such arrests. As to the specific charges, they field test and weigh the drugs in order to determine the offense charged. In most instances, it will be misdemeanor weight, in which case there is only one offense available to charge - PL 220.03. There is no better or different charge to which a rich kid can benefit. And they are not going to risk their career by faking a felony charge against a poor kid, which will only be refuted by the lab when the real testing occurs. So, all these kids, rich and poor, are going to be charged, and the charge will be based simply on what they possessed and how much it weighed. In NYC, the charging decisions are made by prosecutors, and again, they have no choice but to base it on what is possessed and how much. There is no discretion. Have you seen who is running the DA offices in NYC and nearby?

But sure, come back with another useless word salad telling me I live in a fantasy world. And I am sure it will lack specifics, facts and law. The only thing you have said that is correct is the very last thing you have said. "Wealth is a nice thing to have." I agree. But it is not a necessary thing to have as to the discussion at hand. Of course, people who don't know what they are talking about may not have a way of knowing this.
Please let me know how you deal with the flying dragons in your fantasy world.

I'm glad you think wealth does not matter in drug treatment and drug criminal defense. I know for a fact it does. Wealth even impacts the ability to buy homes, you know, which is what real estate threads are about. You know nothing about me, my legal practice, and I am glad I know nothing about you, and do not want to know you.

To the OP, I renew my comments that drugs are found in every school district, including the ones that you mentioned. I would not let that impact my decision to buy a home in any of them. All are very strong districts and have lovely homes. I firmly believe strong family and parent/child openness is the key to preventing drug abuse by teens. There are tons of resources available at the schools and in the various towns in this county. If you choose to look into homes in fantasia, middle earth, or wherever 987ABC resides, I wish you luck with the orcs and ogres. Otherwise, I wish you the best in your home research and eventual purchase. I wish you and your family success where ever you choose to live.

I'm done on this exchange with the fantasy world poster.
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Old 01-20-2021, 02:36 PM
 
718 posts, read 728,236 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
Please let me know how you deal with the flying dragons in your fantasy world.

I'm glad you think wealth does not matter in drug treatment and drug criminal defense. I know for a fact it does. Wealth even impacts the ability to buy homes, you know, which is what real estate threads are about. You know nothing about me, my legal practice, and I am glad I know nothing about you, and do not want to know you.

To the OP, I renew my comments that drugs are found in every school district, including the ones that you mentioned. I would not let that impact my decision to buy a home in any of them. All are very strong districts and have lovely homes. I firmly believe strong family and parent/child openness is the key to preventing drug abuse by teens. There are tons of resources available at the schools and in the various towns in this county. If you choose to look into homes in fantasia, middle earth, or wherever 987ABC resides, I wish you luck with the orcs and ogres. Otherwise, I wish you the best in your home research and eventual purchase. I wish you and your family success where ever you choose to live.

I'm done on this exchange with the fantasy world poster.
I just proved that it doesn’t. It used to. Not anymore. Sorry your law practice is out of date. And yes, wealth impacts the ability to buy a home. Nice of you to share this fact. You are simply a clown that got absolutely schooled on this thread. Still, no facts or logic to support your position. Maybe you can brush up on how things work now in the real world. It has changed much since you last visited.
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Old 01-23-2021, 11:04 PM
 
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With all due respect to the OP, I think they need to be more specific with their terms. I mean, if you take medicine for allergies or something by doctors orders, that is still a drug. Perscription drugs are drugs regardless of classification.

Secondly, what do you define as problems? Unable to control or handle desires to the point where something becomes an addiction? What do you mean by problem? Or problem meaning people are carless with the choices and decisions they make, and how it will affect their lives and others?

Just saying you asked a valid question, and everyone will have their own opinion. I graduated high school 12 years ago. Did drugs become available left and right people offering me all the time? No. Was I able to ask people if they knew where I could get some Rx, yes. If you handle things the right way things won't be considered a problem.

Looking back on it it's for sure a controversial subject that I wish more parents would get involved with to guide their kids in the right direction. Most parents do not want to support illegal activities when it comes to their loved ones. But if I was a parent, looking back from my experience, I would tell my teenager to be aware of their surroundings and what they put into their body.
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