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We are noticing that many of the homes we can afford in Westchester were built in the 1930s or so. What kind of problems do we need to look out for when shopping or be prepared for once bought with these older homes?
Look carefully at when it last went through a major renovation. With any older home, you will want to know the age of the roof. Older doors and windows are not the most energy efficient, so they should be examined. Look out for the age of the furnace, boiler, etc.
A lot of things will be obvious to the eye -- Like whether you need to scrap the kitchen or not.
Older homes are also less likely to have central air. If it's an option you might want to add eventually, take a look whether there are already ducts/vents to make it possible.
With an older home, the major issue really is how well maintained it has been in recent years. It might be falling apart, or it could be nearly as good as new (if its been renovated).
Older homes are a matter of taste. Personally I woulld never consider living in anything too new (less than 40 years old). Currently I live in a 1740 farmhouse, which is my oldest so far. I think Havoc is basically right--it depends on how well the home has been cared for. Look for the age of the roof and major mechanicals. We've updated a lot of those since we bought. (We've kept the old windows, since they have the old wavy glass and we love them.)
As with any house, get a good house inspector--and if you are buying an older home, get one who specializes in that age of house. When we bought we found an inspecter who specialized in antiques. There are things that can be a major "warning sign" in a new house that are not at all a concern in older homes--for example, sloping ceilings or floors, which in a new home indicate serious structural flaws but in an older house just tell you that the place has settled.
Its an interesting trade-off with older homes, you get more character and you dont have the hideous cookie cutter developments where every house is identical and very close together -- but then again, you get some hideous interiors. When you look at the real estate websites you're just astounded that people actually live in 1950's to 1980's interiors. ICK! And I find the heaters of the 1920s and 30's houses really unattractive and a main detractor. However, many of the yards, on the other hand, are beautiful, private, spacious and unique (in terms of older trees, hills, rocks etc).
So do I take it that newer homes at middle class prices ($450-$550K) are totally nonexistent in Westchester? Most people live in these 1970's or earlier houses? It seems so from the real estate listings (unless you're way out of my price range)..
The wood floors are always nice in these older homes though. So without having to redo the floors (except the kitchen/bathrooms), I wonder how much a total renovation would cost (2 bathrooms, kitchen, inner doors, painting, etc). Any ideas?
The times I have done renovations or priced them in houses that I was considering or that a family member/friend was considering and asked me to advise, I would say that two bathrooms, a kitchen, and some floors would run $50k for starters with good quality materials, less if you do the leg work and act as your own contractor and hire out the jobs to individual tradesmen. A basic bathroom, straight replacement, no additional square footage with good, but not super, quality, and non-exotic materials would run $8-$10k. A kitchen can run $20-25k without too much fuss for a basic remodel, though it can easily run $50k on its own for not too large a kitchen, but this is dependent upon materials. If you want a heated, tumbled limestone floor, for example, to make a kitchen, that is going to cost a bit. However, in a bathroom, heated tile is a wonderful indulgence that's not too terribly expensive, and heated towel bars are also nice, especially in a master bathroom.
Floors are not that expensive, though it depends upon the size of the area and complications of install, since some older houses are more complex, especially if they have a type of linoleum or asphalt tile in them that has a small percentage of asbestos within them. Either you have to encapsulate them with the new floor or have an abatement contractor remove them, but encapsulated under a stone or ceramic floor, they are actually not a bad substrate if they are in good condition.
Painting is wide open, since a lot depends upon the condition of the walls and whether or not the molding and trim needs to be stripped so as not to have that caked on paint look. With plaster walls, it is generally a tad more expensive since you need multiple coats with light sanding inbetween with some block that is on an extension pole that the contractor uses. Generally, when this is completed properly, the surface will take years of use before you need to even consider painting again. That's why many with plaster who invest in a quality paint job don't go for some of the latest fad in color schemes. A good job for a whole house could be $5-10k, less if it's a smaller house or has drywall as opposed to plaster.
Overall, older houses have so much character, though some do have floor plan limitations in awkward layouts or lack of rooms that a modern home incorporates, but the charm of a by-gone era and quality of original materials used makes them gems, especially when renovated. Slate and tile for the roof, plaster walls, stucco, moldings, and period details are all features that make them worthwhile.
Another aspect to an older home to consider is the furnace and water heater. And, I would have the wiring inspected, since sometimes it needs to be upgraded, especially if the house is still on a fuse system and not circuit breakers. Also, bathrooms and kitchens, at minimum, should have GFCI plugs that help to reduce danger when used in situations where the plug could come into contact with water. Fireplaces are best lined with a tile chimmney system, and the exterior mortar should be inspected to be sure that it has been regularly pointed so that you don't wind up with a chimmney falling into the house or off the roof.
Newish houses for under 550k in Westchester? They exist in the far northern parts of the county and is less prestigious areas, but they will be smaller houses. You may occassionally find such a house in a more prestigious area, but it will certainly have other issues--- tiny, bordering the highway, for example.
You can find newish in that price range, in 2-3 bedroom townhouses.
Newish houses for under 550k in Westchester? They exist in the far northern parts of the county and is less prestigious areas, but they will be smaller houses. You may occassionally find such a house in a more prestigious area, but it will certainly have other issues--- tiny, bordering the highway, for example.
You can find newish in that price range, in 2-3 bedroom townhouses.
Yes, that's precisely what I noted from the listings. I saw a few 2008 homes in White Plains and assumed it had to be near a highway or something; another was in Tarrytown I believe, and the houses were on top of each other in a development. The others that I see in that price range are all old, and often quite run down as I noted.
For me anything over 1600 sq. feet is OK. I'm not used to a whole lot of space having grown up in the city and generally always lived here. A town house or apartment is out of the question.
I just want to live as close to the City as possible to have an easy commute and because I need to keep a routine connection with the city (I have family and will have to visit often), so that is the only reason I require a "prestigious" zip code..and I'm not interested in Mt Vernon or Yonkers.
I have a feeling I can afford a higher priced house, I'm just sort of risk adverse and don't like to get too deep in debt. Plus, I'm used to paying very little for my housing, having lived in one of my dad's buildings for the past 10 years, and prior to that I lived in a rent stabilized place that was $520 a month when I moved out after a decade. How much do most "middle class" people (say mid $100s) pay a month for their mortgage and home insurance?
Great info bmwguy . I assumed $50K at the bare minimum. Which age houses have the plaster walls, and what's the other type?
Plaster is going to definitely be in a vintage home say to WWII. After that, some builders did use plaster, while others switched to drywall. In the 1950s and later, much of the houses have drywall as it was the newer material and allowed houses to be constructed much faster. Anything from the 1920s/1930s should still have plaster walls in it, unless some "remodeling" was done to the walls in the interveining years. It's very similar to a pre-war apartment in Manhattan where if the original bones are intact, it's not terribly difficult to restore the appearance.
And, some of the quality in 1920s/1930s houses is stellar. A friend bought a house from the 1930s in LA and she was going to renovate the powder room, thinking that she had to rip out the tile, etc. Well, she called the right contractor and he restored what she had to perfection, much less than comparable materials would cost today, and it's period. She did need new fixtures, but with the pedestal sink and other fixtures, it was still a bargain compared to a gut renovation. Not all houses have this capability, since it depends upon how far gone the tile is that needs renovation, but if it's restorable, and set in a mud float to adhere it to the wall, it's well worth investigating preserving, even with new fixtures (provided you can work with the color scheme -- my friend's is black and white so it's neutral). Tubs generally were cast iron in this era as were sinks, and while quality builders still use these materials today, they did tend to fall out of favor with the post WWII era when steel and then fiberglass replaced them.
The failing in some of these houses, however, would be original windows, especially original casement windows as they were prone to leaks and drafts. Replacement windows can do much to improve the comfortability of the house if they have not been done prior to purchasing a vintage house. For a reasonable house with standardized windows, it may not run to huge expenses to acoomplsih this task, perhaps even under $10k.
Wood floors are great, especially if they have been beaten up over the years, since the patina when refinished is something that many try to replicate today by installing the floors during construction, allowing the contractors to use them as the floor, then taking chains and beating the floor in randomized patterns before sanding and refinishing to get that old look.
The other interesting thing about housing in the 1920s/1930s is that's when some first suburbs were developed, so one can find revivals of many unique architectural styles, interpreted for the early 20th Century. Tudor revival, Colonial revival, and Spanish/Mediterranean revival are all represented in the period, some examples of which have great storybook charm that stands out from a sea of McMansions in tract suburbs. Some earlier houses were Arts and Crafts style houses, and others were post-Victorian shingle farmhouse style houses, all of which can be found in the region.
The character that some older houses exude makes them well worth the investment. A friend of mine had a house when he was growing up that was perhaps 1/4 the size of our house, but it had charm and presence well beyond its size with the pitched Tudor roof and gables, leaded diamond pane windows, and ornate brickwork with stone accents. It was from the late 1920s and they had purchased it from the original owners in the 1970s, so it was a rare gem of a house. It was a simple plan of six rooms and a sun porch that was later encolsed as a music room, but was well-proportioned.
Not sure why you say townhouses are out of the question as they often have the square footage you seek. On the inside, if in a quality development, it is no different than any other single family home. On the outside, obvious differences. You can't change the exterior, you are close to neighbors, and you don't privately own a large piece of property.
Overall, I would say my townhouse is more spacious and more modern than typical single family homes that are 100k more expensive. (cheaper because you don't privately own the land.
To answer you question, with an income in the mid 100s, home expenses probably should not exceed 3,000-3,500 per month.
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. I assumed $50K at the bare minimum. Which age houses have the plaster walls, and what's the other type?
