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Thanks for various opinions and info. I can certainly see the pros and cons of this. About the only thing that bothers me is how the people that are fighting it are called racial. I grew up and lived in a NYC borough and from what I experienced and have seen throughout the years, I personally wouldn't want to live in anything that resembles Peekskill or Ossining either. I treat everyone with respect and have diverse friends but there simply are certain fears built up from direct exposures and experiences which I'm not at liberty to divulge here. Anyhow, thanks to all for the info.
Thanks for various opinions and info. I can certainly see the pros and cons of this. About the only thing that bothers me is how the people that are fighting it are called racial. I grew up and lived in a NYC borough and from what I experienced and have seen throughout the years, I personally wouldn't want to live in anything that resembles Peekskill or Ossining either. I treat everyone with respect and have diverse friends but there simply are certain fears built up from direct exposures and experiences which I'm not at liberty to divulge here. Anyhow, thanks to all for the info.
At one time I think it really was "racial", and while I think it sometimes can be nowadays in more "hidden" ways, it's really more "class warfare" now.
In my hometown of Mt. Vernon, they no longer call it "white flight" but "bright flight" or sometimes "class flight", as significant numbers of upper middle class blacks are doing the same thing in regards to the school system, etc. and for the most part I don't blame them either. A good friend of mine (who is an upper middle class African-American who lives in a "nice" suburb) has noticed the same thing in parts of Connecticut as well (both Fairfield County near NYC and up near Hartford, lives in the former and she was raised in the latter).
In some ways, I can understand all this in terms of what you're saying here, if someone has the means and doesn't want to live in Yonkers or downtown Peekskill or Ossining, he or she shouldn't have to regardless of race. But my point is that it is so extreme here than many people who would like to are "priced out" and either have to live in an unsafe area or move out of town against their will and a lot of it is due to restrictive zoning relative to population size.
I absolutely agree with you on that. Another funny thing is, I do live in a VERY diverse area and I often meet people from the higher-end part of my town and they are always squawking how they want diversity yet they look down on me because of where I live. I ask them "Why don't you move to where I live if you want diversity"? but I get a blank stare. lol. Sorry to change the subject here...
Croton is actually a very politically divided town. The last election was extremely bitter and nasty and the vote for mayor was decided with a 1% margin. Unlike most town elections in the area--in which political parties are basically irrelevant--this one was strictly Republican vs. Democrat and very much about "old" residents vs. "new" ones. Why don't you learn a little about the town before jumping in?
Croton schools enjoy a very healthy student/teacher ratio and there is no overcrowding in the system. (There was years ago before the school expansion, but that is no longer an issue.) The system can certainly add the small number of students that the proposed apartments might add.
And isn't it interesting how no one was concerned about "overcrowding" when the town approved high-end developments throughout the boom years? Those developments added huge numbers of students to the system, but no one ever worried that they would overburden it. And funny how no one ever worried that all those developments would make the town "like Peekskilll or Ossining." Now that the town wants to allow 100 apartments for low- and middle-income families there is a small but vocal group that is suddenly "concerned." How much do you want to bet that if the proposal was for high-end condos those "concerns" would suddenly disappear?
So in other words, if you could guarantee that only low-income and middle-income WHITE people were going to move into this new development the opposition would disappear? Don't think so. People move to Croton to get away from high density development, not to embrace it.
Please don't compare the newer single-family houses on 1/2 acre lots to 100 proposed units packed into a small area. And Half Moon Bay is isolated and virtually invisible.
So in other words, if you could guarantee that only low-income and middle-income WHITE people were going to move into this new development the opposition would disappear? Don't think so. People move to Croton to get away from high density development, not to embrace it.
When the opposition warns that the 100 apartments will make Croton "like Peeksill or Ossining" what do you think they mean? Do you think anyone actually thinks that 100 apartments is going to magically make the town into a densely populated city? I don't think so. If the fear is simply of poor people, then the opposition is classist and elitist. But when they use Peekskill as a code, they are clearly playing on racial fears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubygreta
Please don't compare the newer single-family houses on 1/2 acre lots to 100 proposed units packed into a small area. And Half Moon Bay is isolated and virtually invisible.
I wasn't. You said that the opposition "are actually concerned that their already overcrowded schools will become more overcrowded." My point is that no one had those concerns when the many hundreds of single family houses were built in the last decade. Funny how no one was worried about an increase in rich white kids to the school system.
When the opposition warns that the 100 apartments will make Croton "like Peeksill or Ossining" what do you think they mean? Do you think anyone actually thinks that 100 apartments is going to magically make the town into a densely populated city? I don't think so. If the fear is simply of poor people, then the opposition is classist and elitist. But when they use Peekskill as a code, they are clearly playing on racial fears.
I wasn't. You said that the opposition "are actually concerned that their already overcrowded schools will become more overcrowded." My point is that no one had those concerns when the many hundreds of single family houses were built in the last decade. Funny how no one was worried about an increase in rich white kids to the school system.
You know, when you drive around Croton, it's not exactly a rich town. There are already some very modest homes in the area. It's kind of hard to be classist and elitist when you have a humble job and a modest income.
My question is why do certain people in Croton feel like they have some sort of obligation to build low-income housing in the community. Nobody has the "right" to live in Croton, or any other place for that matter. I would love to live in Purchase. I can't afford it. Should I demand the Town of Harrison build affordable housing for me in Purchase?
You know, when you drive around Croton, it's not exactly a rich town. There are already some very modest homes in the area. It's kind of hard to be classist and elitist when you have a humble job and a modest income.
My question is why do certain people in Croton feel like they have some sort of obligation to build low-income housing in the community. Nobody has the "right" to live in Croton, or any other place for that matter. I would love to live in Purchase. I can't afford it. Should I demand the Town of Harrison build affordable housing for me in Purchase?
No one has a "right" to live in a given town, but an entire area should not be so restrictive that unless you make six figures you either have to fear for your life or live 50 miles from your job either.
No one has a "right" to live in a given town, but an entire area should not be so restrictive that unless you make six figures you either have to fear for your life or live 50 miles from your job either.
What are you talking about? There is low-income housing all over Westchester County. It's just not in Croton. Fear for your life? Huh?
You know, when you drive around Croton, it's not exactly a rich town. There are already some very modest homes in the area. It's kind of hard to be classist and elitist when you have a humble job and a modest income.
Someone living in a "modest" single-family house can certainly feel elitist and classist about those who need assistance to afford an apartment. Historically it is the working-class and lower-middle-class that is usually the most resistant to programs to help the poor.
Like most towns in the area, Croton has a fair degree of socio-economic diversity. Homes range from very modest ones in the village to very expensive ones outside of town (especially in the Teatown and Mt. Airy sections). The median income is $97,376 (according to the NY Times), certainly not "rich" but hardly that "humble" either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubygreta
My question is why do certain people in Croton feel like they have some sort of obligation to build low-income housing in the community. Nobody has the "right" to live in Croton, or any other place for that matter. I would love to live in Purchase. I can't afford it. Should I demand the Town of Harrison build affordable housing for me in Purchase?
Given the broad the support for the zoning change in Croton, it would appear that most residents realize that diversity--both economic and racial--is strength and that the proposed apartments are a great way to increase population, tax base, and customers for local stores without a major impact on the physical environment. It is a national movement called "smart growth."
I meant "relatively small" in the context of the size of Croton. 100 apartments in a town of over 7,950 residents seems relatvely small to me.
But I am sure you're correct that there are some people who are opposed to the project for understandable and non-offensive reasons. However, the project also has to be viewed in the larger context of the tremendous need for low- and middle-income housing in Westchester. While the county doesn't really need more high-end senior living complexes (as proposed for the RD site), it does need more housing for middle-income families.
100 apartments... with potential for 200-400 more residents, is pretty significant to a town with a population of under 8,000. (Up to a 5% increase is pretty dramatic).
Further, I don't necessarily disagree with a supposed need for middle-income family housing -- But to the extent that such families want apartment living, there are plenty of options throughout the county. If there is a problem, it's a lack of affordable single-family homes, which won't be cured by building apartments. And if anything, Croton is already one of the more affordable towns for single-family homes.
The greater fear though is in any town -- "Rental" areas tend to have lower property values, they bring less attractive residents (as renters, they have less of a tie to the community). I'm not advocating the bias, but there are practical reasons why most towns oppose expansion of rental-type units and neighborhoods.
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