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The $380 million brought in by the casino gets distributed throughout the tribe. Shall we tell individual Cherokee that they must survive on that alone, or maybe we've done enough to them and we should let them earn as they see fit?
And suffering is okay if the person perpetuating it needs it to earn a living?
And suffering is okay if the person perpetuating it needs it to earn a living?
More strange reasoning.
Of course you would have skipped where I stated that none of that makes it right. I just felt things had to be put into perspective. If they were in there eating human babies or something, might be a different story. While I don't want to see any animals tortured, still pales in comparison to what we did to them.
Why do we need to put it into perspective? Intelligent people know the history of the white man and the Indians. And none of us who are alive had any part in it.
We can't go back in time. All we can do is the right thing, right now.
No one Alive, In This Day and Age Has done ANYTHING like you are hinting at, to the Cherokee people Living on the Reservation in THIS day and age....GTFO of here with this ****
If Irks Me like No other When people Try to use this Lame Excuse for **** that is going on in CURRENT times...Myself and other White People Had no Control over what happened 200+ years ago, However, Regarding what is going on at this place we DO/CAN have a word about something that is CLEARLY not right
Was it right what happened to the Cherokee? NO
Is it right how they are Treating the Animals? NO
How you can even try and Defend something like this is beyond me...
Ahem...uh..."these people"...."our native" black bear?
Couple things to keep in perspective, no matter what we might think of this...
1) They are a lot more native than most of us will ever be...
2) Whatever "torture" you think they are putting the bears through pales in comparison to the torture and slaughter of their people by the white man.
3) The $380 million brought in by the casino gets distributed throughout the tribe. Shall we tell individual Cherokee that they must survive on that alone, or maybe we've done enough to them and we should let them earn as they see fit?
Again, I'm not saying this makes it right. But I'm guessing that every time one of them hears the pathetic whining from animal rights loons, they have a nice giggle about what they consider torture.
The real victim here seems to be basic logic, for yours is tortured at best.
Just because someone's ancestor's were mistreated doesn't mean they get a moral free ride forever. You don't have to be an "animal rights loon" to see this bear exhibit and be appalled. If anyone see this and isn't appalled, I'd question that person's moral code.
Just to humor your argument a bit, the vast majority of Indians were killed by disease. Many scholars now estimate 90% of Indian deaths were from disease, and there is little to no evidence that this was intentional. People didn't even really understand how diseases spread back then. Sure, the U.S. government did horrible things to the Indians, especially later in our history with them. However, the perception that we killed all the Indians is not accurate. We went to war with them, and forced them out of their lands into reservations. But there was nothing close to genocide, or torture for that matter.
No one Alive, In This Day and Age Has done ANYTHING like you are hinting at, to the Cherokee people Living on the Reservation in THIS day and age....GTFO of here with this ****
If Irks Me like No other When people Try to use this Lame Excuse for **** that is going on in CURRENT times...Myself and other White People Had no Control over what happened 200+ years ago, However, Regarding what is going on at this place we DO/CAN have a word about something that is CLEARLY not right
Was it right what happened to the Cherokee? NO
Is it right how they are Treating the Animals? NO
How you can even try and Defend something like this is beyond me...
Apparently reading comprehension is not a strong point. There is NO WHERE in my post where I defended their actions. If you can find it, please post it. I also knew posting something like this...the possibility of placing ANY human above ANY animal, was going to get me a bunch of crap in the liberal stronghold of Asheville. With that said...
I didn't defend their actions. I've never been to one of those zoos (or whatever the latest demonizing term might be). Not sure I ever would. However, they are obviously somewhat popular. Personally, I'd rather see them in the wild, but there are more levels of what people think are acceptable for animals than there are animals. Some people would close Cade's Cove, because of how the constant flow of cars and people take the animals out of their element. Others find it acceptable to shoot protected elk just for the rack to put on their wall. I'm not going to stand here say what is right...I'm not that pompous.
The ONLY thing my post meant to do, was to say that the treatment of 50, or 100, or 1000 bears by the Cherokee pales in comparison to what happened to them when we destroyed their culture and tradition. I really don't give a flying PETA monkey what those radicals think (or you for that matter), about how history is going to be re-written to show that the common cold killed the Indians...no trail of tears, no massacre at wounded knee, no forced removal from their homes so "civilization" can be shoved down their throats.
Is this an acceptable part of their culture? I don't know. Acceptable treatment of a bear? Probably not, though I've never experienced it. But it's an animal, and as far as I'm concerned, that means being lower on the totem pole than humans. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities...
Apparently reading comprehension is not a strong point. There is NO WHERE in my post where I defended their actions. If you can find it, please post it. I also knew posting something like this...the possibility of placing ANY human above ANY animal, was going to get me a bunch of crap in the liberal stronghold of Asheville. With that said...
I didn't defend their actions. I've never been to one of those zoos (or whatever the latest demonizing term might be). Not sure I ever would. However, they are obviously somewhat popular. Personally, I'd rather see them in the wild, but there are more levels of what people think are acceptable for animals than there are animals. Some people would close Cade's Cove, because of how the constant flow of cars and people take the animals out of their element. Others find it acceptable to shoot protected elk just for the rack to put on their wall. I'm not going to stand here say what is right...I'm not that pompous.
The ONLY thing my post meant to do, was to say that the treatment of 50, or 100, or 1000 bears by the Cherokee pales in comparison to what happened to them when we destroyed their culture and tradition. I really don't give a flying PETA monkey what those radicals think (or you for that matter), about how history is going to be re-written to show that the common cold killed the Indians...no trail of tears, no massacre at wounded knee, no forced removal from their homes so "civilization" can be shoved down their throats.
Is this an acceptable part of their culture? I don't know. Acceptable treatment of a bear? Probably not, though I've never experienced it. But it's an animal, and as far as I'm concerned, that means being lower on the totem pole than humans. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities...
The problem you're having is that we do have reading comprehension.
You may not have "defended" their actions, but you certainly expended a lot of words to DOWNPLAY them. You have made it clear that this is not an issue to be concerned about. You have implied that we don't even have a right to say a word because of the history of the Indians.
Art did NOT say there was no trail of tears. He was saying that all of it happened. The trail of tears happened AND more died of disease.
Also, neither Art or myself live in "the liberal stronghold of Asheville", so that has nothing to do with our thoughts.
I don't think a person is "pompous" for seeing that animals don't thrive in circumstances that go directly against their nature. It isn't "pompous" to advocate for them. And it certainly isn't "pompous" to understand what science tells us about animals ... that they do experience emotions, suffering, depression, and frustration, which are attributes that are not in the sole possession of humans.
There is lots of science and studies out there on what animals experience that you have apparently missed.
There will always be people like you who may not hurt an animal, but don't get too concerned if other people treat them badly. Just as you don't "give a flying monkey" about what people like us think, neither will we stop advocating because of what you think.
There will always be people like you who may not hurt an animal, but don't get too concerned if other people treat them badly. Just as you don't "give a flying monkey" about what people like us think, neither will we stop advocating because of what you think.
Don't worry. We won't be calling you for help.
That isn't a fair representation of me, but you wouldn't know that. I just see levels, where as there will "always be people like you" who will take someone who has just broke wind in the general direction of any living thing, and take it as an assault on everything that breathes. I own a wonderful pug, and I'd erase anyone who did anything mean to her. I own chickens, and they provide food for my family. I don't keep them huddled in a tiny cage where they have to eat each other to make room to breathe. I'm an advocate for protecting endangered animals via federal and state legislation. But I also make a distinction between us, and lower forms of life.
If people like the nuts at PETA weren't so fascist, they'd probably get support for things that aren't so drastic. If they had their way, we'd all be eating grass and nuts (until some loon publishes a study showing how grass blades cry).
I did not imply you could not talk or have a differing opinion, however, I was told to, "....GTFO of here with this ****".
Again, there are levels. Not everything is black and white. While I 'MIGHT' not consider keeping an animal caged to be torture, I would think that if they had them in a cage and stood back and charged people 5 bucks to throw baseballs at them. As I said, I'm not pompous enough to think that my view is the right one. It's just the right one for me.
Is this an acceptable part of their culture? I don't know. Acceptable treatment of a bear? Probably not, though I've never experienced it. But it's an animal, and as far as I'm concerned, that means being lower on the totem pole than humans. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellobiafra
Again, there are levels. Not everything is black and white. While I 'MIGHT' not consider keeping an animal caged to be torture, I would think that if they had them in a cage and stood back and charged people 5 bucks to throw baseballs at them. As I said, I'm not pompous enough to think that my view is the right one. It's just the right one for me.
Ironically your view is similar to those who killed Indians and put them onto reservations. They, too, thought that some forms of life were below them, namely Indians.
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