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Old 12-15-2007, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Kansas City
1 posts, read 3,043 times
Reputation: 10

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Hello,

I work for Developer/Builder/Management Company that is debating whether or not to build 3 green apartment/townhome market rate rental projects in the Asheville area. Our communities add to our neighborhoods and the cities we build in. I really feel our model would be appreciated in a town like Asheville. Our tenants enjoy or projects as well as our neighbors. With that being said, I know posting as a Developer/Builder in this forum I will surely get flamed. So flame on….

I have a few questions for those of you who know Asheville and don’t mind helping a Developer/Builder make a good decision:

1. Where do people work that enables them to live in a place like Asheville?

My research shows that 25.5% of the workforce in Asheville works in retail/leisure/hospitality. Unfortunately, those jobs usually don’t pay well. I know firsthand how difficult it can be to make ends meet while working in those fields.

The 2nd largest industry is Healthcare employing 17% of the population. This concerns me on many levels.

I was surprised to see that the 3rd largest industry is government at 15.1%.

Finally, the 4th largest sector is manufacturing at 11.9%. I’m sure many of you know this particular field has suffered lately and has lost 24.3% of its jobs since 2000.

Jobs are a MAJOR concern for us. Without good jobs people can’t afford to rent from me. It appears that most of the people moving to the Asheville area are rich retirees who don’t rent. Am I right in my assumptions? For those of you wanting citations visit http://ashevillenc.wliinc3.com/pdf/STATS%20Industry%20Employment%202007.pdf

2. How do apartment communities maintain high occupancy rates and get great rents (many of them get $1.00+/foot)?

I’ve toured a few apartment communities in Asheville that have waiting lists for their 3 bedrooms and they’re getting fantastic rents. How do you explain it? Is it because no one builds homes that cater to this segment of the market? There aren’t very many homes that sell for less than $150k.

3. What have apartment builders done to build large communities without destroying the look of Asheville and upsetting the community?

The topography in Asheville is brutal for building large high density neighborhoods. There is also a lot of granite in the ground that makes it difficult for development.

4. What are the new and planned changes to zoning and development restrictions? How will these impact a multi-family rental development?

The rules are definitely changing in Asheville. Probably for good reason. The greedy single family home developers and builders in Asheville have given all of us a bad name. I read about the developer who chopped off the top of a mountain for a new neighborhood. Asheville also needs a sign ordinance in a major way.



Your help and opinions are much appreciated!
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Blue Ridge Mtns of NC
5,660 posts, read 26,919,983 times
Reputation: 3857
I've been told quite a few part-time residents in the Asheville-Hendersonville area rent apartments year-round, but only actually occupy them around 6-8 months out of the year. As a result, they don't have to pay property tax or worry about maintenance during the months they're gone.
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Upstate SC
957 posts, read 2,610,906 times
Reputation: 979
Quote:

1. Where do people work that enables them to live in a place like Asheville?

My research shows that 25.5% of the workforce in Asheville works in retail/leisure/hospitality. Unfortunately, those jobs usually don’t pay well. I know firsthand how difficult it can be to make ends meet while working in those fields.

The 2nd largest industry is Healthcare employing 17% of the population. This concerns me on many levels.

I was surprised to see that the 3rd largest industry is government at 15.1%.

Finally, the 4th largest sector is manufacturing at 11.9%. I’m sure many of you know this particular field has suffered lately and has lost 24.3% of its jobs since 2000.

Jobs are a MAJOR concern for us. Without good jobs people can’t afford to rent from me. It appears that most of the people moving to the Asheville area are rich retirees who don’t rent. Am I right in my assumptions? For those of you wanting citations visit http://ashevillenc.wliinc3.com/pdf/STATS%20Industry%20Employment%202007.pdf
I'd be concerned about the job market here too, if I were you. I'm frankly surprised that the 25% retail/hospitality isn't higher. There just aren't many typical corporate/office jobs you see in most cities this size and larger in the area. The huge influx of retirees has done nothing but driven up the home prices for those of us still working, and in my case, has forced me to find a job outside of Asheville and commute. I worked in the software industry for 10 years, 5 in Asheville, and once my firm started laying people off it was time to find work elsewhere, before it happened to me. I probably could have found a job here in AVL making less money than I made in software, but that would have ruled out buying a home with the ridiculous home prices here that have been inflated by others moving in, who took their equity and paid cash. Don't even get me started on greedy developers who have destroyed many of our beautiful views. Anyway, I found a great corporate job in the Greenville/Spartanburg area and will be commuting until the school year ends and then moving down there where you get a lot more home for the money.

Affordable rentals are in great need here, and I don't know if you're thinking at all that route, but I can see where it might be beneficial for the area and possibly lucrative for you.
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:23 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,423,668 times
Reputation: 8381
Quote:
Originally Posted by warnett View Post
[
3. What have apartment builders done to build large communities without destroying the look of Asheville and upsetting the community?
They are trying to cram as many apartments onto any scrap of land they can find, smack in the middle of older established neighborhoods overwhelming water, sewer, roads, and schools.

The opposition is primarily neighborhood groups that are sometime successful, in limiting the size or density, and sometimes stopping a huge expansion (Haw Creek Mews as an example). The quality of these neighborhood disasters is really pathetic. We have friends that live in the Mews, and when there is a lull in the conversation you can always listen to the conversation in the neighbors apartment. Cheap and possibly poorly installed vinyl siding, that buckles and gives a nice wavy effect. Bathrooms so small you have to step out of so you can have enough room to change your mind.

Now when you say 'green' are you talking about building materials, or green as in solar, or other alternative energy sources. Either way I suspect your costs per sq/ft are going to be higher, in a market that is already high.

Asheville is also arm twisting developers to have a percentage the property 'reserved' for low income housing units.
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Lowcountry
764 posts, read 1,594,479 times
Reputation: 416
Can't really fault the idea of building apartments vice subdivisions. With land prices skyrocketing (soon to fizzle like everywhere else), why wouldn't I want to build up (vertically)? It's cheaper and you get more bang for your buck. Isn't that what it is all about anyways? Who cares about the neighborhood....some absentee investor will buy the complex which just encourages the whole process again and again.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:09 PM
 
132 posts, read 346,348 times
Reputation: 63
They are building huge single family homes on postage-sized lots and asking $350+ per SF. I guess out-of-control land and infrastructure costs, along with zoning, drives developers to make certain decisions. I'd just be cautious given the current economic situation in WNC. You may have missed out on this gravy train.
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Old 12-22-2007, 12:16 AM
 
18 posts, read 71,453 times
Reputation: 30
I lived in Asheville 8 years and I have seen too much change too fast and mostly for the bad- though thsoe who have done it will call me crazy for saying so.

I also have worked in construction for nearly 30 years on true custom residential & commerical projects in the north and rocky mountains and find a lot of what is being hyped in Asheville is overpriced poor quality look-alike materials to trick the homeowner to get the home off the builders' back.

In my opinion I would tell anyone DO NOT invest any more $$ right now as I seriosuly believe Asheville is at the apex of hyperinflation and with the current national bankign crisis and fraud found in major lenders on illegally having appraisers inflate homes to make bigger mortgages to sell to investment firms, it will all come crashing down unlike we ever saw before. Why?

Because every damn dollar spent and wasted to do what has trasnpired the last 10 years or so was because of the first wave baby boomers and what they were able to amass working elsewhere in a time and country we no longer have. There will be NO MORE of the same monies coming after them and all of their assets have been reallocated and re-invested for the final time in their lives.

Asheville is too high priced for no real reason, and the job numbers you quote are crap like the Asheville statistics used on the net. The Asheville area utilizes ppopulation numbers from 5 surrounding counties to market itself to make it look bigger than it really is, and this has also added to false appreciation and false luring of people running here gladly dumping everything they had on homes they never question the prices on, only to be sadly taken in in by what I see as a major scam on them.

The game is over and the monies have dried up. You have a majority retail based income now in Asheville with some corporate jobs and medical- Buy understand, the wages paid even for those jobs are far below the national wages for the same or even what other larger cities in NC pay for those jobs; so even those few professional jobs pay very low wages.

My wife was a personal assistant to one of the doctors of Biltmore Medical Center for several years, and they fired her and other women in time, because they didn't want to give raises when she was only making $12.65/hour then, making him $millions literally; and after that she could never get a job again in Asheville, and the medical center went to a temp agency and got an even cheaper person who had far less experience or credentials to try to replace her and the other womens' jobs..

I saw problems with many supposed custom homes built and the City needed an electrical Inspector, so I even tried to get that job and even wrote an article in the paper about sloppy work I found that was being let go by inspectors; because of my background, owning a contracting company for many years in PA, wiring historical and older homes in the northeast, working for military installations in Colorado Springs for several years, and wiring commercial retail centers and medical installation projects, and other experiences and having a Master Electrician License from 3 other states and education and experience behind me of many years, and a member of the NFPA, my licensure was not recognized by State of NC nor Asheville; and I did not get that job over a less qualified local applicant who was happy taking the $14.00/hour job as it paid. I was however offered to go back to wiring $million homes for a local electrical company who did homes for Beverly Hanks Realty at Biltmore Lake, and they wanted to pay me a competitive wage of $11.00/hour!!! A wage I made 22 years ago!

NOW you see why we and many others we came to know (locals or otherwise) finally left Asheville area out of disgust to go elsewhere to be able to afford finishing raising our families..
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