When will WI allow concealed carry? (Milwaukee, Madison: sales, co-ops, home)

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by EastSideMKE

I'll provide stats when you can show me that Canada has "some of the worst drug problems in the world."

Honestly, do you really need an official source to tell you that Wisconsinites drink too much?



AZ's law violated federal law and was struck down appropriately. Laws get passed when the majority of citizens demand they get passed, notwithstanding any constitutional issues (see AZ).

Despite your obvious slant against Arizona in this and other threads, Arizona's law was put into effect, minus certain parts. An injunction prohibited some parts from taking effect. Arizona has filed an appeal. More in November.

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by FryGuy

A Shall-issue concealed weapons law has and would likely continue to pass constitutional muster. A judge in both these cases found these laws did not. No matter how popular a law is, the voters cannot overrule the Constitution. 30-40 years ago , you could have gotten laws passed making interracial marriages illegal. This would have been unconstitutional. Some people see gay marriage in the same way. I won't even go into the immigration law.

To get it back to you original post,if you live in a state with Shall-issue laws and don't care whether WI ever passes one, why in God's name do you come on this board unless it's to agitate people?

Why do you and the EastSide guy get agitated with a "what if" question anyway? The lady asked a simple question, and east Side took it all the way to health care, Europe, and who knows what else.

This thread is comical.

[BadgerGrl]

Originally Posted by FryGuy

To get it back to you original post,if you live in a state with Shall-issue laws and don't care whether WI ever passes one, why in God's name do you come on this board unless it's to agitate people?

I apologize if anything I said incited a conflict in anyone's mind. But I do think intelligent, meaningful discussion is critical in any democracy, broken or not. If you'd prefer, I won't post anything else on your state's boards.

I care because I have ppl I love in WI, and I love the state. The city/state/country that closes its eyes to what is going on around them does itself a big disservice in the future.

[BadgerGrl]

Originally Posted by 43north87west

Why do you and the EastSide guy get agitated with a "what if" question anyway? The lady asked a simple question, and east Side took it all the way to health care, Europe, and who knows what else.

This thread is comical.

Lol, and there you have the typical knee-jerk reaction. It's only a matter of time before they take it to a personal level.

(meaning eastside and the other guy, not you 43north...reading that over it sounded wrong)

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by BadgerGrl

7 million voters in California voted against gay marriage, yet one activist judge made it clear that their opinion does not matter.

Does the phrase "separate but equal" ring a bell?

Originally Posted by BadgerGrl

Unfortunately this country has reached a point where its democracy has been rendered ineffective by a minority of ppl in power. You are entitled to whatever is your opinion, but now tell me that it actually matters.

Our country was never a true democracy to begin with, that's the way the founding fathers wanted it. If it were a true democracy, then every law would be passed via referendum and we would have no need for elected representatives like senators and congressmen. Institutions like the Electoral College were designed to act as a barrier between uneducated people and their government. In a sense, the government was protecting the people from themselves because they were too beholden to superstition, emotion, and religion to be able to think and vote in a clear and rational manner.

Many times the government has to take the lead otherwise things would never change. For instance, most Americans weren't in favor of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1968, but had those not passed the country would be a much different place today.

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by FryGuy

A Shall-issue concealed weapons law has and would likely continue to pass constitutional muster. A judge in both these cases found these laws did not. No matter how popular a law is, the voters cannot overrule the Constitution. 30-40 years ago , you could have gotten laws passed making interracial marriages illegal. This would have been unconstitutional. Some people see gay marriage in the same way. I won't even go into the immigration law.

To get it back to you original post,if you live in a state with Shall-issue laws and don't care whether WI ever passes one, why in God's name do you come on this board unless it's to agitate people?

+1000

[Geechie North]

Originally Posted by EastSideMKE

Are we lagging behind or are we ahead of the curve?

Europe and Canada don't allow their citizens to walk around in public hiding firearms in their purses or stuffed into the waistband of their trousers, and whad'ya know they have far less violent crime than we do.

IL and DC don't allow conceal-carry for obvious reasons, I think the reason WI doesn't allow it because we're quite a progressive and common sense bunch of people. Our crime rate is among the lowest in the nation, so most people know we have no need to be "packing heat" at the local Piggly Wiggly.

CQ Press: City Crime Rankings 2009

Metro Crime Rate Rankings (Low to High)
1 State College, PA (76.20)
2 Sheboygan, WI (71.87)
3 Appleton, WI (69.53)
4 Bangor, ME (67.21)
5 Logan, UT-ID (66.48)
6 Eau Claire, WI (66.40)
7 Columbus, IN (65.93)
8 Provo-Orem, UT (65.54)
9 Rockingham County, NH M.D. (64.59)
10 Ithaca, NY (64.50)
11 Edison, NJ M.D. (64.39)
12 Harrisonburg, VA (63.42)
13 Nassau-Suffolk, NY M.D. (62.62)
14 Williamsport, PA (60.80)
15 Glens Falls, NY (60.72)
16 Lebanon, PA (59.08)
17 Corvallis, OR (58.41)
18 Oshkosh-Neenah, WI (56.40)
19 Weirton-Steubenville, WV-OH (56.26)
20 Fond du Lac, WI (54.73)
21 Lancaster, PA (54.01)
22 St. George, UT (54.00)
23 Johnstown, PA (52.82)
24 Cambridge-Newton, MA M.D. (51.31)
25 Green Bay, WI (51.18)

Remember the ratio 22:1.

For every one civilian who prevents a crime by having a gun, 22 other civilians are killed/injured by having a gun in their residence.

Has to do with training- and I'm not talking a few hours spent in some classroom, or on a firing range during daylight.

Professional Law Enforcement types are rigorously conditioned to know when and when to use deadly force, and still they make mistakes; John and Jane Q. Public who hear a noise at night when they are alone, are just not able to maintain their objectivity- cool- if you will.

But the media won't report that stat will be my guess. NRA is just too powerful. It can tell too many businesses where to spend the ad dollars.

So, it may go through.

[1200RT]

Originally Posted by Geechie North

Professional Law Enforcement types are rigorously conditioned to know when and when to use deadly force, and still they make mistakes; John and Jane Q. Public who hear a noise at night when they are alone, are just not able to maintain their objectivity- cool- if you will.

so .. by your logic, we should remove firearms from law enforcement, because mistakes *do* happen.

Again .... please provide information about people not being able to remain cool under the pressure of an attack.

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by 1200RT

so .. by your logic, we should remove firearms from law enforcement, because mistakes *do* happen.

Again .... please provide information about people not being able to remain cool under the pressure of an attack.

Why are you in the WI Forum? This isn't the Politics & Controversies, what's your connection to WI?

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by EastSideMKE

Are we lagging behind or are we ahead of the curve?

...we're quite a progressive and common sense bunch of people.

Odd... this map (link below) that you posted in another thread, using it to indicate how extroverted Wisconsinites are, indicates that Wisconsin has a low number of concientious people, as well as a low number of people open to new experience.

Not open to new experience, and not concientious.

Opinions stay around in Wisconsin as long as the people, which is forever. I am not knocking longevity, but anything that grossly distorts the way that people view themselves, is a problem.

One of Wisconsin's primary stumbling blocks, is that people have never migrated away from it. Everyone thinks that it's a progressive state, because it was progressive decades ago. How is Wisconsin "progressive"? Maybe Brady Street is "progressive". UWM is probably "progressive". The City of Madison considers itself "progressive", and justifiably so--it's populated largely by students and people affiliated with a huge university. But Wisconsin as a whole? It's a nice state, and a good place to live. But the whole state is not a sum of it's few "progressive" parts. Sorry.



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