I-39/90 expansion (Madison, Janesville, Beloit: hotel, neighborhood, construction)

[Milwaukee City]

Originally Posted by Chelito23

What I don't get is, when the US interstate system was built, why was it relatively plausible and easy to do so? But now, just adding a lane or rebuilding or adding an extension is a monumental achievement or task?

I'm sure you heard of NIMBY before so that is one aspect that deters freeways. People who live within a mile of a freeway will complain about increased traffic, safety concerns, pollution, noise and light pollution. I have been to these meetings and you would think these people should be all put on the funny farm for some of the dumb excuses they come up with. Believe it or not but there are people who live next to airports and complain about the noise. Money is another issue, budgets are strapped tight and since not one single government body in America has a rainy day fund or a ER fund usually the money is accounted for for many years in the future. Politics, usually road building or expansion is a political killer meaning if your the politician who advocates more or expanded freeways you will lose in the next election, it's a politician hot potato that no one want to juggle. Environmental, now anything that get built has to jump through 964 hoops just to make sure a gardner snake farm isn't disturbed. This takes time and ties up money. Land Availability, back in the day you wouldn't have to buy hundreds of homes and business to acquire the land which brings us back to the money issue and NIMBY. Hiring Restrictions, this applies in some places but not everywhere but still has an affect. Some municipalities or fed rules will be put in place that require you to hire a certain amount of minorities, women, military, and age groups. So when a company bids they are bidding with all these requirements in place and must meet them or penalties will arise. Work hours and overtime stipulations may also apply. Who is paying for what, this argument goes on all the time on which city or county or state or Fed dept. will pick up that tab for this and for that and relocation of business or roads along the way. How much money will the feds put in? then if the feds are putting in money they might put their own restrictions on such speed limit. IE: I-794/Lake Parkway in Milwaukee. As some of you know it's a 4 lane divided highway that connects Layton Ave to Downtown Milwaukee and can be safely traveled at speeds of 60mph. However since the feds helped out with the expansion of the lake parkway down to Pennsylvania Ave in Cudahy the US GOV demanded the speed be reduced to 45! creating a huge long speed trap. This is why some cities, counties or states will deny funding from the US Gov because of all the strings attached which usually means more money coming from tax payers which equals a tougher sell and a tighter budget.

Hope this helps clear up the picture.

[liveurdream]

Originally Posted by Chelito23

What I don't get is, when the US interstate system was built, why was it relatively plausible and easy to do so? But now, just adding a lane or rebuilding or adding an extension is a monumental achievement or task? Was there some sort of special legislation that allowed what we have now? I look at maps and think, certain areas need new highways or freeways (think Lale County, Illinois from west to east, Hwy 12 from Chicago up through the NW suburbs into Lake Geneva and on to Madison, etc). But none of this is going to happen. I get that costs have gone up, but it seems like these kinds of huge projects are always riddled with problems, overrides, etc. I wish we could still build big like we used to. And not just freeways, I would love a TRUE high speed, elevated bullet train. But I suppose most people are happy with the way things are.

Too many people dependent on the big G to feed them.

[Chelito23]

You articulated it well. I don't get why the NIMBY people are up in arms. Just recently in Madison there is a major powerline project along the Beltline. You would have thought the power lines were going across the capital lawn. I was like, people are worried about the "view" along the Beltline, home to motels, big box stores, car dealerships and industrial buildings??? Yet people had a shyt fit. So I am not surprised by NIMYism in and of itself, I just dislike that the vocal minority gets their way. It's like, if you are unhappy, move. If you don't like progress or growth, why live in the fastest growing county in the state or along a major transportation corridor?

And why, in Madison, is NIMBYism so strong? I know it isn't this bad everywhere. A lot of places welcome improvements, growth, etc. Maybe it is a Wisconsin thing? I am not sure. But sometimes we need things to get one as these projects benefit the majority so the "inconvenience" to the minority shouldn't be a deterrent IMO.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

As someone who travels through MN, IL MI, WI, IA, IN, often I would expand the freeways to 8 lanes from Tomah down to the state line and 6 lanes everywhere else in the state that it is currently not.

Serious overkill.

[JoshB]

Originally Posted by Drover

Serious overkill.

Agreed. From Portage to Wausau it's 2 lanes in each direction. I think that is sufficient for now. However we have 90/94 running to Wisconsin Dells. From the interchange in Portage to the Dells it should be three lanes each way. After the Dells it could stay 2 lanes in my opinion. The Wisconsin Dells draws much of the interstate traffic.

[Drover]

^^ It's 4 lanes well past Wausau these days. It's 4 lanes all the way up to just north of Tamohawk.

[spectator80]

Originally Posted by Chelito23

And why, in Madison, is NIMBYism so strong? I know it isn't this bad everywhere. A lot of places welcome improvements, growth, etc. Maybe it is a Wisconsin thing? I am not sure. But sometimes we need things to get one as these projects benefit the majority so the "inconvenience" to the minority shouldn't be a deterrent IMO.

NIMBYism does seem to be particularly strong in madison, and it can definitely be detrimental to the city. the failed $98 million edgewater hotel redevelopment comes to mind. most cities would kill for a project of that scope downtown, but the residents who lived in the area were up in arms about the proposed eight story "tower." sometimes i'm amazed that madison has as much development as it does.

[Milwaukee City]

Originally Posted by spectator80

NIMBYism does seem to be particularly strong in madison, and it can definitely be detrimental to the city. the failed $98 million edgewater hotel redevelopment comes to mind. most cities would kill for a project of that scope downtown, but the residents who lived in the area were up in arms about the proposed eight story "tower." sometimes i'm amazed that madison has as much development as it does.

Don't know about that project but that sounds like the city of Madison missed out on a great opportunity there. Look at this picture below it's of The University Club Tower(tall white one) on the left and the Kilbourn Tower(tall brown one) on the right both just feet apart. The Kilbourn was there first then shortly after the University club tower was proposed and everybody in the KT threw a fit saying their million dollar lake view was going to be ruined. True to a certain degree but I have news for people who live in cities and especially downtowns. Just cause you have a parking lot next to your building or a gas station or another apartment building don't expect that to stay that way forever. Especially on the lake front, you don't think somebody was going to come along and build another condo building to take advantage of the lake. Point being that when you live in a metro area you should expect things to change and grow and don't be surprised when you road gets widened to 6 lanes when it was 2 before.

[Milwaukee City]

Originally Posted by Chelito23

What I don't get is, when the US interstate system was built, why was it relatively plausible and easy to do so? But now, just adding a lane or rebuilding or adding an extension is a monumental achievement or task? Was there some sort of special legislation that allowed what we have now? I look at maps and think, certain areas need new highways or freeways (think Lale County, Illinois from west to east, Hwy 12 from Chicago up through the NW suburbs into Lake Geneva and on to Madison, etc). But none of this is going to happen. I get that costs have gone up, but it seems like these kinds of huge projects are always riddled with problems, overrides, etc. I wish we could still build big like we used to. And not just freeways, I would love a TRUE high speed, elevated bullet train. But I suppose most people are happy with the way things are.

Here is an example of what I was talking about in my earlier post about city requirements and how difficult it makes it for things to get done.

Hispanic Group Sues Over Milwaukee Minority Contracting Rule - HispanicBusiness.com

A Milwaukee ordinance meant to assure that minority contractors get a share of city business is unconstitutional, according to a lawsuit filed Tuesday by the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce

Under the city's old ordinance, certain percentages of city business in areas such as construction, goods and services, supplies, and professional services had to go to "emerging business enterprises" deemed disadvantaged in various ways.

The new rule aims to help specific groups such as minority business, small businesses and female-owned businesses, and further breaks down the percentages. For construction services, for example, the 25% set-aside must include 5.57 percent African-American-owned, .07 percent Asian-American-owned 7.31 percent female-owned and 12.05 percent small businesses.

It would be nice to award a contract to the company that offers the lowest price and history of doing great work instead of putting all these requirements on them like race, age and sex.

[Jasonrose231]

Originally Posted by Drover

I don't know that it needs to be 6 lanes all the way to Tomah but it's about time I-90 was expanded to 6 lanes from the point where I-39 merges with it near Portage clear to Chicago. Right now it's only 4 lanes from Randall Road in western Kane County all the way out to Rockford, and then it narrows back down to 4 lanes again from Rockton until it hits the Beltline in Madison. That's silly.

They have plans to expand I-90 all the way from O'Hare to I-39. They have already started work.

I-90 Rebuilding and Widening Project - www.illinoistollway.com