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Old 07-03-2012, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado
1,974 posts, read 2,181,324 times
Reputation: 1756

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Quote:
Originally Posted by liveurdream View Post
So you live your life based on who is in political power? Just so you are educated, there is an election taking place before they are back in session and 10 dems are up for relection.

You are just being a typical liberal - can't admit defeat.

Welcome to Jonestown! Father has refreshments!
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Portland OR
2,192 posts, read 3,223,595 times
Reputation: 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by artisan4 View Post
Keep drinking the Teabagger Kool Aid.
That's it!
Boring reply
Done with you - bye bye
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:44 AM
 
608 posts, read 842,307 times
Reputation: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by artisan4 View Post
Keep drinking the Teabagger Kool Aid.
Classic bleeding heart liberal.
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:07 AM
 
679 posts, read 617,848 times
Reputation: 492
Wisconsin resident here, didn't vote because both candidates are knob-heads.

I remember when this state actually use to be civil when it came to politics but the TEA-party completely ruined that during the Feingold-Johnson election.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:37 PM
 
3,409 posts, read 4,356,486 times
Reputation: 4231
The TEA party ruined civility in this state!?? That just made me laugh so hard root beer came out my nose!!! WHICH party was marching around the capitol screaming and carrying on, waving signs in everyone's face, breaking windows and shouting down anyone who tried to speak that didn't agree with them???? You claim to live here, but don't know about that crazy time??????????
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
11,596 posts, read 8,899,120 times
Reputation: 12029
I don't know who to support in this whole thing as I don't live here, but my father supports walker. On a federal level, they can't cut deficit spending without crashing the economy, since with fractional reserve banking, debt is money and money is debt, and more needs to be created to service the interest payments. Many do not realize how the monetary system works, that when someone takes out a mortgage loan, money is created from thin air.

Still going deeper into debt only stalls the inevitable economic fallout and makes it more severe when it does occur. Bottom line, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Checkmate. They are just buying time now.
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,532 posts, read 4,772,432 times
Reputation: 3505
Both sides here need to wake up--both dems/"liberals" and republicans/"conservatives." The renewed discussion here shows the same old divisions: unhappy dems on one side, gloating republicans on another. There's very little attempt by either side to bridge the gap; all that matters is being defensive and claiming to represent "the real world." In actuality, both perspectives are based in reality, but it's easier to stereotype than to try to understand these competing (but not irreconcilable) realities. All this crap about "typical liberals" and "typical teabaggers" does nothing to enhance understanding.

On the one hand, the state's economy is in poor shape, and business as usual is not going to solve the massive problems lying ahead. Walker's response is as much an indictment of Doyle, the previous dem governor, as it is of Thompson and others. The state has gained a poor reputation in business circles, yet it's private enterprise that lies at the foundation of building industries and creating jobs. Does this mean Walker's agenda will work? Not necessarily, but really, what innovative alternatives are there that won't break the bank? Part of Walker's strategy is to pare down government--not eliminate it--and make sure spending is in check. A lot of government employees such as myself realize that the changes reflect a larger paradigm shift in the nation's financial path. Though readjusting compensation by paying more for benefits is not pleasant, it's better than several alternatives.

On the other hand: more suspect on the financial front, I believe, is Walker's union-busting strategy of ending collective bargaining. Of course, it doesn't spell the end of public employment in the state, but it does radically change the culture of the state by reducing the influence of unions and, politically, dems. I find this part of Walker's strategy more troubling, and I'm generally not in favor of it, though it isn't arbitrary on his part (it's part of his pro-business vision), and many other liberal states do fine without a historic union legacy. However, I find that Walker overreached with his moves against collective bargaining. It is possible to have a pro-business environment in a collective bargaining state, but Walker doesn't want to take the trouble to make it happen. A better politician would have tried to bridge the divide and position himself above the dem vs GOP swirl, but I guess it's so much easier to deactivate an entire political structure instead.

(What concerns me more about Walker is his probable social agenda. I'm fine with a state that models itself as pro-business, but I'm not interested in a state run by Christian ideologues. I can move back to the South for that, thank you.)

In the discussions about public employee compensation, there continue to be inconsistencies from both sides based on a variety of data. The Republicans have worked to bring public employee benefits (pension, health care) more in line with other states, yet most data indicate that public salaries themselves fall behind compared to similar jobs in other states. In my case, I make $5000-10,000 less than my peers. Yes, some people do say "If you don't like it, move elsewhere." For me, the sky isn't falling (yet), and the pay cut is compensated by quality of life and job satisfaction (so far), but I do have my feelers out, just in case. Job-searching is something that people do in private industry, so I guess Republicans feel that government employees should have the same mentality. (I work at a university, however, so one could argue that massive job turnover isn't very productive to the institution's success. Business models do not apply to everything.)

However, people in private industry also tend to promote offering competitive salaries in order to attract and retain employees. It seems that many people refer to this model when convenient, but forget about it when talking about public employees. If we're going to implement private business principles to government hiring and compensation structures, we should consider the full set of options--offer competitive salaries and accept job-shopping. In my own case, as a public university employee, it would be more beneficial for the campus or system to have greater autonomy to use state and other funds, so salaries actually can be more competitive. It doesn't work well to have a state university bound by old laws within a state that is imposing a more classic business model on everything.

Overall, what bothers me most about the situation in Wisconsin now is the divide--the open hostility between the two major groups. This divide has been evident on these boards, and many people from both sides seem to enjoy holding up the divide with snide comments, stereotypes, clichés, and so on. Many people in this state seem to relish the fight, and that (not the pay cut, benefits cut, etc.) is what has really disappointed me. It's the verbal version of civil war and looting, and both sides are guilty.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:31 AM
 
608 posts, read 842,307 times
Reputation: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
I don't know who to support in this whole thing as I don't live here, but my father supports walker. On a federal level, they can't cut deficit spending without crashing the economy, since with fractional reserve banking, debt is money and money is debt, and more needs to be created to service the interest payments. Many do not realize how the monetary system works, that when someone takes out a mortgage loan, money is created from thin air.

Still going deeper into debt only stalls the inevitable economic fallout and makes it more severe when it does occur. Bottom line, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Checkmate. They are just buying time now.
As you seem to know, federal spending is an entirely different ball game than balancing a state budget.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado
1,974 posts, read 2,181,324 times
Reputation: 1756
It's very straightforward.

The Republicans lust for more political power and more money.

They are the party of the upper class. Who do unions represent? The Democrats, the middle class and the working class, the Republicans' political opponents.

GOP strategies: attack the power of unions, attack the ability of Democrats to vote by launching voter suppression initiatives, attack any and all Democratic legislative initiatives. Attack, attack, attack.
Instead of raising taxes on the wealthy to solve budget problems, push for regressive taxes and cuts to the middle and working classes and their unions. This will hurt their ability to fund their organizations and voter drives.

If you can get those voters who hate liberals, blacks, gays, unions etc. to continue to come out and vote GOP, great. Whatever works. Prey on their predjudices.

When people point out that the GOP have blown billions of our tax money on wars for ExxonMobile and Halliburton and all their wealthy friends, work to separate that from national debt. Don't even mention Iraq and no WMDs. Go to a town meeting and scream at a Democratic representative.

This is TOTAL WAR on American democracy, initiated and prosecuted by the Republicans, and Americans need to WAKE UP.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:42 PM
 
608 posts, read 842,307 times
Reputation: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by artisan4 View Post
It's very straightforward.

The Republicans lust for more political power and more money.

They are the party of the upper class. Who do unions represent? The Democrats, the middle class and the working class, the Republicans' political opponents.

GOP strategies: attack the power of unions, attack the ability of Democrats to vote by launching voter suppression initiatives, attack any and all Democratic legislative initiatives. Attack, attack, attack.
Instead of raising taxes on the wealthy to solve budget problems, push for regressive taxes and cuts to the middle and working classes and their unions. This will hurt their ability to fund their organizations and voter drives.

If you can get those voters who hate liberals, blacks, gays, unions etc. to continue to come out and vote GOP, great. Whatever works. Prey on their predjudices.

When people point out that the GOP have blown billions of our tax money on wars for ExxonMobile and Halliburton and all their wealthy friends, work to separate that from national debt. Don't even mention Iraq and no WMDs. Go to a town meeting and scream at a Democratic representative.

This is TOTAL WAR on American democracy, initiated and prosecuted by the Republicans, and Americans need to WAKE UP.
Yawn.....liberal foaming from the mouth like normal.
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