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Old 07-05-2012, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
3,919 posts, read 3,013,140 times
Reputation: 3663

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Quote:
Originally Posted by artisan4 View Post
It's very straightforward.
This is TOTAL WAR on American democracy, initiated and prosecuted by the Republicans, and Americans need to WAKE UP.
You are nuts.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Portland OR
2,174 posts, read 3,195,979 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empidonax View Post
Both sides here need to wake up--both dems/"liberals" and republicans/"conservatives." Overall, what bothers me most about the situation in Wisconsin now is the divide--the open hostility between the two major groups. This divide has been evident on these boards, and many people from both sides seem to enjoy holding up the divide with snide comments, stereotypes, clichés, and so on. Many people in this state seem to relish the fight, and that (not the pay cut, benefits cut, etc.) is what has really disappointed me. It's the verbal version of civil war and looting, and both sides are guilty.

Empidonax,
I see lot's of thought put into your post. Thank you.

A few comments:
1. Politically we have always been a divided people. Hell - we have killed Presidents, Governors and each other over disagreement. There is nothing new here. Rather there is now a 24 hour media cycle with agendas that creates image of division.

2. You claim Walker wants to weaken Unions ties to Democrats. Probably true. One one could argue however that he is only righting a huge wrong. State government should never have been in the business of allowing a political party to have such financial advantage through the state financial system. Reason: Union dues offer no benefit to the taxpayer or citizen, the true customer of government.

The Dems had a huge advantage in WI. So much so, that the claim of "clean" WI government was a complete sham. The state taking dues out of workers checks made it it too easy for this money to flow to Democrat coffers. It was a seriously, incestuous relationship and was just plain wrong.

I do not even think the Union members see much value to the Unions as I find it interesting that since dues must now be paid directly by worker; Union membership is significantly lower.

Does this hurt Democrats financially? - Sure. But it was a scenario that never should have happened in first place.

3. Public employees, as a monopoly, should not be Unionized. Other states and Federal employees cannot unionize. The fact that WI had such a strong public Union presence is a clear example of WI's "progressivism" gone awry.

4. All operations, public or private, are stronger when there is some level of turnover and bad employees can be removed without too much hassle.

I commend you for mentioning that many Public employees recognized the need for change. I too think that many folks were cast in a very negative way and that was unfortunate.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,973 posts, read 2,171,842 times
Reputation: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by everwinter View Post
You are nuts.
What's that, Lord Haw-Haw?
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,973 posts, read 2,171,842 times
Reputation: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjarider View Post
That's it!
Boring reply
Done with you - bye bye
Lucky me
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