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Old 06-06-2012, 08:55 AM
 
21,173 posts, read 13,573,587 times
Reputation: 12147

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
Stop blaming businesses for driving down compensation. Patterns in consumption dictate how well businesses do and ultimately, how well they pay employees. Google, Facebook and BHP Billiton pay certain kinds of employees generously. I don’t know how the details of how the economy is like in Wisconsin, but if too many people feel their wages are going down, they should ask themselves why more companies like Google are not locating to Wisconsin.
As someone who works in that industry, I can tell you that the Googles and Facebooks are never going to be interested in Wisconsin because of where it is located, the cultural environment and the lack of educated workers. And if the few educated workers Wisconsin has left leave, you'll only be worse off. A state full of haves (don't want to pay taxes), have-nots (no money to pay taxes) and retired people on Social Security. Good luck growing the state with that.
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:59 AM
 
35,317 posts, read 46,686,060 times
Reputation: 30854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairieparson View Post
Jambo101 seems to have no experience living in a "Right to work State". .
20 yrs in Florida might qualify me for some experience in a right to work state.
Basically you go to work every day hoping you still have a job at the end of the day as you can be terminated and given no reason why,
You will be working for as little as the boss can get away with and you better say how high on the way up if the boss asks you to jump.
No healthcare, and no pensions and if you took too many days off for health reasons you are basically let go.
Maybe a right to work state works for some,it never worked for me.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:39 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
854 posts, read 2,838,816 times
Reputation: 686
First of all, let me congratulate Wisconsin voters for stopping this recall started by disgruntled union workers.

While I have nothing against unions, I do have problems with public workers having collective bargaining rights which have forced many states and municipalities into billions of dollars in unfunded liabilities.

There is no one at the bargaining table to protect the taxpayer. Elected officials pander to the large public employee union voter base, and end up giving beneift increases that are unsustainable. In private industry if the profit isn't there there is simply no increase in benefits, whereas, governments are forced to raise taxes, or kick the can down the road; well the end of the road is here for many state and local governments.

For the most part federal government workers do not have collective bargaining; pay and benefits are set as the economy dictates, so why do states and local governments permit it?

Why do state and local governments feel they have to be in the defined benefit pension business? Why not a contributory pension? Why do they give workers free health benefits for life? Why do they provide medicare reimbursements to retirees? Who elses gets these benefits??

Many folks are forced to make a choice to eat less and less healthly meals, and forego proper medical care just to pay takes to cover these benefits.

Wisconsin has made a step in the right direction.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Old Hyde Park, Kansas City,MO
1,145 posts, read 2,245,010 times
Reputation: 581
Political Parties is what is destroying this country, the divide is so strong, nothing will ever get accomplished, this is a great quote from George Washington as to why he was opposed to political parties.
"It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another....it opens the door to foreign influence and corruption...thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."

Politics in general seem more entertainment these days. If one side is on the GOP it's like they are rooting or cheering for the Cubs and if the other side is on the Democrats its like they are cheering for the Brewers.

Last edited by brewcrew1000; 06-06-2012 at 10:15 AM..
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:16 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,120 posts, read 5,969,607 times
Reputation: 4512
Thank you Wisconsin!

-from your neighbor to the East (or North, in the case of the U.P.)


Also, to the anti-Walker crowd... please stop trying to frame this discussion as "evil corporations" vs the working man.

This is mostly about public sector unions. And the working man (who isn't fortunate enough to work in the public sector) is on the hook for paying for the benefits of public workers. So just stop with the B.S. Public sector unions are payed by the taxpayer, not an "evil corporation." And many of the taxpayers ARE working people.

The money that Scott Walker is saving isn't going in his pocket. It is going back to the people of Wisconsin.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:17 AM
 
7,142 posts, read 10,678,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc515 View Post
Many folks are forced to make a choice to eat less and less healthly meals, and forego proper medical care just to pay takes to cover these benefits.
This is the fundamental point, but it has hardly anything to do with unions or corporations. Having more low-paying jobs will reduce the unemployment rate, but not make workers better off. It's more about the quality of jobs and the quality of the workforce.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:24 AM
 
21,173 posts, read 13,573,587 times
Reputation: 12147
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
It is going back to the people of Wisconsin.
Let's see if this turns out well for Wisconsin. Walker may be the dog that caught the car. What happens if you win but what's left are a bunch of mangled pieces, hate and anger, broken families and 53% of the state crowing loudly in the faces of 47%? Do they work together or does the 47% smile and do absolutely nothing to work together because the resentment is so deep? Will the jobs follow in the face of that? Scott Walker said they'd roar back after the election. We'll see if that happens. There may be no winners in Wisconsin.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:34 AM
 
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue
5,706 posts, read 8,724,018 times
Reputation: 8914
A "divide & conquer" strategy rewards those at the very top and that's it.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:40 AM
 
374 posts, read 914,775 times
Reputation: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJacket View Post
A "divide & conquer" strategy rewards those at the very top and that's it.
That must be why obama keeps trying to stoke the racial and class warfare fires!
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:57 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,120 posts, read 5,969,607 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Let's see if this turns out well for Wisconsin. Walker may be the dog that caught the car. What happens if you win but what's left are a bunch of mangled pieces, hate and anger, broken families and 53% of the state crowing loudly in the faces of 47%? Do they work together or does the 47% smile and do absolutely nothing to work together because the resentment is so deep? Will the jobs follow in the face of that? Scott Walker said they'd roar back after the election. We'll see if that happens. There may be no winners in Wisconsin.
Well... this bothers me.

So is that how it works? Sounds like a lovely blueprint. If someone does something you don't agree with, you create a huge firestorm and get everyone riled up. Then, at the end, you can say, "well, he may have won, but look at how divided everyone is! We are worse off!"

How are we supposed to deal with serious issues going forward? Just avoid anything controversial because it might "divide" people? And just let the ship sink?
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