Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The thing about "divide and conquer" is that is exactly what many Republican voters love about Scott Walker. They love the divisiveness and hostility that Gov. Walker has generated. It makes them happy.
Wrong...you are falling prey to the propaganda. Repubs do not generally enjoy the divisiveness and hostility. But they do appreciate Walker's ability to get things done. So many Repubs fail miserably at that while many Dems are generally far more adept at accomplishing goals. It's been a long standing complaint about Repub elected officials by Repub voters.
I agree with several of his views. I think right now it's between R. Burke & Walker for me. M. Burke lost it for me with the latest news about her job history, & besides, the liberal fan base & their ways make it almost impossible for me to join their side. But I'll see. It'll likely depend on what type of mood I'm in on Tue.
You are really grasping at straws,splitting hairs, mangling logic to come to that conclusion. You don't see that? Never mind. Silly question of you, on my part. You don't see, I can tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empidonax
Not all political divisiveness is the same. You don't grasp that?
Appreciate the mention dawg. It takes an outsider to recognize the overall positive benefit of this legislation? Key words overall positive benefit. No legislation is absolutely benign or beneficial to all.
Unlike liberals, progressives, or anarachists, conservatives view the world as is, not as we wish it was. Reality, it is difficult for some.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumpindogs
Thanks. I read this. And I disagree with this statement: "Walker has used similarly cartoonish rhetoric to attack ... public schoolteachers."
I don't recall any language from Walker that attacked public schoolteachers. Mark Belling...yes. <sigh> Scott Walker...no. Walker did substantially reduce the power of the public unions and IMO they were way too powerful. One can logically assert that he attacked the power of the public unions and their leaders. But he did not attack public schoolteachers.
I do agree with this from the article: "During the Act 10 firestorm, he railed against the "thuggery" of "union bosses" who were, in his view, trying to rob the public blind."
From Politifact Wisconsin:
"In substance, Walker’s move dramatically limited, but did not completely end, collective bargaining by most public employees. His Act 10 allowed the state to cut benefits and try to limit pay increases. He argued that unions had become too powerful and that elected representatives of the people should have more control over taxpayer-funded compensation.
Roosevelt said in the 1937 press conference that compensation levels for federal employees should be set by Congress and the president, not through bargaining with unions.
So both men -- decades apart -- envisioned a limited role for unions in the public sector.
But the differences in context make the two men’s views hard to compare.
Walker acted after 50 years of collective bargaining between the state and its employees -- in the birthplace of public collective bargaining -- while FDR expressed his views before labor won that toehold into that arena."
Walker dismantled aspects of the public unions that should never have escalated to the point they did and that needed to be addressed in order to save WI from the financially draining and inherently unfair policies of those public unions. From Earthlyfather's post, Act 10:
"1. Ended collective bargaining, and the unholy alliance of voting into office, those who then negotiate the union contract. An unholy alliance. CHECK!
2. Ended the stranglehold the WEA Trust had on school district health insurance. Gave more options for school districts and their employees. Lowered cost for both the district and employees in many cases. CHECK!
3. Improved the ratio between school districts and school district employees cost sharing of health insurance and health costs. Lowered cost of operation, gave employees more of an ownership of their health decisions. CHECK!
4. Lower property taxes as a result of Nos. 2 and 3 above for all tax paying citizens. CHECK!"
Similar extravagant public union policies have caused serious fiscal problems for states such as IL and CA and similar extravagant private union policies furthered the demise of the big Detroit auto companies. It's a hard lesson that we shouldn't have to experience ourselves in order to learn. Our state budgets...and our federal budgets IMO...can no longer afford gold standard benefits for public employees. Act 10 fixed that.
No one likes it when they find themselves in financial trouble and are forced to tighten the purse strings. No one likes it when their benefits are cut. I didn't when my benefits were cut every single year for 17 years by a company trying to keep it's head above water. But I understood. It's obviously nearly impossible for many public teachers to realize they had the best bennies by far, that we taxpayers were footing the bill for their superior bennies and that our state was gonna be in deep doodoo unless we did something to reconcile that. Heck, they had 50 years of living large bennies behind them so of course it hurt. Teachers lost a lot with Act 10. But they had a lot of excess to lose. It's very difficult to understand that from the teacher perspective although I do have teacher friends who easily understand this and support Act 10. And some who don't...they rant and rave and feel entitled. I try to refrain from emotion in my posts but I will admit that their entitlement attitude really grates on my nerves. I have as much schooling as they do (and more scholastically rigorous with an emphasis on chemistry, physiology and disease process) and an arguably equally difficult job...high stress, mandatory overtime, mandatory on call and the daily danger of contracting blood borne life threatening disease. And I help save lives. Teaching our kids is very important but I think it's safe to say that saving lives is very important too. But my salary and benefits pale in comparison to what public teachers are *now* getting after Act 10. And compared to pre-Act 10?...a cruel joke.
I value both public and private schoolteachers. I have public teachers in my family. I have friends who are public teachers. One of my immediate family members is the benefits coordinator in a local public school district HR department. As such I've been privy to many personal stories on all sides of this issue. I work in a union shop myself. But I do not put public teachers on such a high pedestal that I feel they deserve benefits vastly superior to comparable private sector employees. Especially when payment of those benefits drags the rest of us into financial trouble.
All that said, it sure seems that the union thing is what most consider Walker's primary divisive action. And that's what I figured. His failure to present his Act 10 plans pre-election is no more covert than what many politicians do once in office. It's Act 10 itself that is the issue. The impact of Act 10 and it's related actions has earned Walker both faithful fans and committed enemies. Some feel he pushed Act 10 when he should've gentled. But when you consider that unions have pushed for so many years, Walker's push doesn't seem so outlandish and actually looks to me like he was playing by the unions' own well established rules.
Unlike liberals, progressives, or anarachists, conservatives view the world as is, not as we wish it was. Reality, it is difficult for some.
In other words, status quo. No vision for the future, no wish to make things better or progress. No wonder I'm not a republican, what a depressing view you guys have.
Oh, I think Act 10 had great vision. All of the benefits I have already mentioned. Status quo would have been to allow the unions to continue pillaging the local school district and Wisconsin state budgets. See, you are not able to even debate logically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile
In other words, status quo. No vision for the future, no wish to make things better or progress. No wonder I'm not a republican, what a depressing view you guys have.
Oh, I think Act 10 had great vision. All of the benefits I have already mentioned. Status quo would have been to allow the unions to continue pillaging the local school district and Wisconsin state budgets. See, you are not able to even debate logically.
That's your opinion. And as I pointed out, you claimed conservatives do not think ahead to how they wish things were. That's stagnant. Good luck with that progress & growth!
You are really grasping at straws,splitting hairs, mangling logic to come to that conclusion. You don't see that? Never mind. Silly question of you, on my part. You don't see, I can tell.
Obviously, you're not able to propose a civil and thoughtful counter-argument to dispute my claim. So much for logic, eh? Your black-and-white view of this issue seems to be impairing your ability to see shades of color in between. No wonder this state is so divided: it isn't just the politicians; it's also some people in the electorate who are unable or unwilling to consider nuances.
If you cannot see the basic fact that some policies/maneuvers are more controversial and divisive than others--no matter which side of the aisle they come from--that's your problem. Scott Walker promoted and got Act 10, and he also promoted and got Act 168. Both were controversial and divisive, but for most, Act 10 was obviously more so at all levels. Who even remembers Act 168 now? It's also known as the Sporting Heritage Bill, and even under that label many people don't know what it refers to. Not at the same level as Act 10.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
