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fl_trekkies - It looks like everyone has provided great input on location. I find other comments in your original post to be worth exploring.
If your son truly presents well as a male, why would he feel the need to seek single restrooms? Transgender citizens have been using the bathroom they identify with since the beginning of time. Recent media attention did not and will not change this. Your son can walk into a Male bathroom in any Church in North Carolina if he wants to.
Sounds like your kids are in great need of human interaction beyond their family circle. E.g. putting your daughter in public school for the last two years of her education. While I understand a parent's decision to home school their children, it softens their skin to conflict and they can have a very difficult time handling every day conflict in the real world. Know my comments do not come from a place of ignorance, but rather personal understanding. I have more than a handful of home schooled relatives, all of which struggle socially.
It's not my intent to derail this thread into an anti-homeschool or bathroom rant, but instead to offer food for thought as you seek happiness for your family.
I think you will find WI welcoming. Two Rivers is a beautiful area. I have a sister that lives in Plymouth and we were raised in Chicago, so Lake Michigan is beautiful. I would like to think your family would be welcomed. We live in a small community in the central part of the state. There are transgendered people here. I would like to think that everyone is welcoming but I know that is not the case. People claim if you are not born and raised here you are shunned but in our almost 30 years of living here we have not found that to be the case.
I wish all of you the best of luck in your move.
fl_trekkies - It looks like everyone has provided great input on location. I find other comments in your original post to be worth exploring.
If your son truly presents well as a male, why would he feel the need to seek single restrooms? Transgender citizens have been using the bathroom they identify with since the beginning of time. Recent media attention did not and will not change this. Your son can walk into a Male bathroom in any Church in North Carolina if he wants to.
Sounds like your kids are in great need of human interaction beyond their family circle. E.g. putting your daughter in public school for the last two years of her education. While I understand a parent's decision to home school their children, it softens their skin to conflict and they can have a very difficult time handling every day conflict in the real world. Know my comments do not come from a place of ignorance, but rather personal understanding. I have more than a handful of home schooled relatives, all of which struggle socially.
It's not my intent to derail this thread into an anti-homeschool or bathroom rant, but instead to offer food for thought as you seek happiness for your family.
The summer of 2012, we closed our facebook pages for all the hate that came from my son's father and his family (my ex-husband) then a barrage of quotes from the bible all over his page from people we never met comparing him to the devil and using the word 'freak' and abomination. Three weeks after the facebook page was closed, we received a visit from his grandfather to our home. He had driven 12 hours non stop to pound on our door, barge his way in while my husband was out and try to physically attack my son. When I barred his entrance, he shoved me into a wall calling my son the most offensive words imaginable. My husband arrived and called the sheriff when he would not leave our home and continued yelling. The sheriff arrived, spoke to my son's grandfather in an agreeable manner. His grandfather left, the sheriff proceeded then to make my son feel as if it was his doing, looked him from head to toe in an offensive manner, called him 'son' in the same manner and tried to sit him down to talk to him about what he was doing to provoke good people. We said that was enough and asked him to leave.
Three weeks later, my son and daughter went to the bus stop that was almost directly in front of our home at the corner. My son always stayed more away from the kids with one friend he kept. I watched three teenage girls from the high school and their siblings from the middle school approach my son and his friend in an aggressive manner. My son's friend said something to them and they responded by physically moving into their space in a threatening manner. My daughter (then 11) came over and was pushed by one of the middle school girls. I ran out but by the time I had gotten there, the girls were already pushing my son and becoming aggressive. One of the mothers of the girls whom were siblings in both schools, came over and began screaming at me and my children offensively, swearing incoherently and then proceeded to get into her car while we were running back to the house. We lived off of a dirt road and had a front gate so it took us a moment or two to get in to our property. She drove aggressively yelling out of the window. The police were called. The same sheriff came and stated that he didn't see anything, proceeded to again implicitly blame my son and treat him disrespectfully. I became very angry but my son said quietly to me, with a very red face but calm, to be careful and not to worry; that he was fine. I told the sheriff to leave. The bullying progressed in the next days. I filed a complaint against the girls and other students were required to make witness statements. In response, parents were angry and my daughter was coming home going into her room and crying. She lost the few friends she had made and was put down in school. I put in a complaint against the sheriff and the schools-both together on the same property even though they were middle and high school. My daughter was in elementary school but all three schools were attached. In response to that, I received a call from my son at school to come get him. He was beyond upset and sounded panicked. There I was confronted by the school security and two police whom were told to search my son as he exited the bus in front of all his class mates. My son has implements and he is extremely shy about that. At the time he was embarrassed but to be patted down from head to toe in front of everyone was just humiliating to him.
I changed schools. By the time was son was 16, he requested to drop out and we were more then supportive of this. My daughter was fine in the new school for a few months until a new student befriended her. We were very happy. The girl's mother seemed to be a nice person that loved my daughter. Her friend slept over one night. By the next day, she had told the school about my son and my daughter was again bullied. The school was not against her by any means but neither supportive nor helpful. She was crying constantly. Social interaction with other kids? Zero except to bully her daily. I don't need to go on. It didn't get better. We pulled the kids out, put the house up for rent for all the threats my kids would get just for walking outside or riding a bike. We moved to the next larger city area. We kept to ourselves, my kids walked around but no, they didn't socialize with other kids. For a couple years, this was fine. Until the place we live was sold to new owners and new renters came in. New kids came into the complex and again began harassing my family each time they would go for a walk or leave anywhere to ride their bike. The parents seemed to care but the latest incident involved an 8 year old whom repeated some extremely offensive words and made comments to the fact that my son wore a 'bra' (relating to the binder he wears that must have been seen under his tank when he took a walk on a very hot day). I spoke to the father, whom at first froze when I repeated what his son said and then defensively stated that his son was told not to even be around 'those kind of people'. He was unreasonable to both my husband and I when we stated that we just wanted to be left alone and we would stay out of their way. We left. My daughter's last attempt at 'socialization' with other area school children here was thwarted by the grandfather of the 15 year old whom told his daughter and granddaughter that she was not allowed to be around my daughter and the 'freak' in the family. The family is very old school Christian and has made comments against my family in a way 'not intended to be insulting, just a difference of opinion'. We accepted that as we wanted our daughter to have a friend. My daughter however, just couldn't let the family make a comment against her brother that was stated in the way of a biblical quote. The grandfather told her to leave when she asked nicely to please not talk about her brother that way. The mother came to apologize but stated she had to go by her father's wishes as he was head of the family.
My son presents well. He appears to be a 16 year old boy whom could pass as a gay young man. We have been lucky. My son will be a man. He has had over a year of counseling (we had to drive 2 hours for that each time-was the closest person we could find). He has begun his shots (travel the same distance for this as well). His name is just been changed. His birth certificate never will be. He is scheduled to have his surgery this summer. I don't know how he will be in the future as a man. He has not been threatened for the reason that he appears young now. I am not sure of the future and it's a fear he has. Laws can change, bills can even be supportive. They will not change people whom already fear and hate. My son can't get a job for the background check even after the name change. There are laws even here for now against discrimination. I assure you, it still happens. I have confronted at least 3 managers whom are hiring for local restaurants that have become awkward and defensive when I asked what my son could do for an interview. He volunteered at a local thrift store. Each hour of credit is given to a local person whom needs clothes, furniture, etc. He worked two weeks there without problems until the owner came and asked him to move furniture all day in and out of trucks. When it became clear that my son is transgender, I was called to come get him early then told by the owner he would not have 'any he/she's working at his store. The young women whom worked and supervised him looked at his with a lot of sympathy and gave my son a hug after the owner left the room but it did a lot to my son.
The year my son turned 18, I had put aside a healthy amount to take everyone for a special day at the mall and out. I wanted to get my son a complete new style to help make him feel less depressed about himself as everything was just taking their toll on him. He had a great time at the salon and was ready to go get his new clothes in the small mall here. We went into three stores before we were allowed to be helped. The first two greeted us warmly but when we asked to try on clothes, he was denied. My son's body type is small and we are certain that they began questioning his gender when we couldn't find anything but very small sizes to try on. The third store was a very expensive store with hip hop clothes. The man was from Jamaica and was a friendly smiling man whom greeted my son as 'little man'. The store was empty and he was very understanding. The clothes were so big that they almost drowned him but the man quickly took us to areas with tight and colorful jeans as well as small shirts. They were much more expensive; we spent over $600 in that store. We were there some time too but he was amazing to my son and I honestly was close to tears at how much nice this man was to us and how happy he made my son. While my son was changing, he spoke quietly and frankly with us without being explicit. He was very understanding and cautioned us to go further to Orlando next time to a mall as this one was still small and community oriented.
These are only a few days of our life. There are many, many more and the past few weeks have been a nightmare here. I can't even begin to describe them in a way I ever imagined they could be.
I worked for the schools in Chapel Hill, NC for a decade up to ten years ago. I was a full time school bus driver and also worked in a high school cafeteria. The last year I was there, a young group of people began to get signatures to start up a new group in the high school for lgbt. When they approached my co workers during lunch, my supervisor became irrational and told them to take that filth away from the cafeteria. She proceeded to quote scriptures from the bible. I was shocked and the poor young man meekly walked away. I confronted my manager and supervisor during clean up (both of whom attended the same local church). I was told in a professional manner that it was at their discretion what they would allow although the supervisor was reprimanded for not bringing it to her attention first. I left that job that same week but kept school bus driving. There are many people in that community that were very open minded to the lgbt community but there were just as many extremely prejudiced and while I wasn't in contact with the entire state, I can assure you the close minded I were in contact came in very large numbers, many whom were from the local churches of all backgrounds. I would also never think to go near that state for my son to even try to enter a restroom. I happen to love him and don't want him hurt. We are also very careful even here.
Before you offer your 'food for thought' in your pre judgements on my choices and life for my family, I invite you to walk even one day in my shoes. I don't want to enter into anything other then the life for us should we relocate; I live every day defending our lives and being judged by people whom don't see us a human beings or worse, those whom try to advise me how I should be good mother with the best of intentions based on their own judgement of what a good life should be and how I can make my children happy. I think if you didn't want to change this thread, you would not have entered a comment.
I am really sorry that you had experienced such things and such devastating lack of support from officials and school teachers/administrators. School is tough on all kids, but it shouldn't be that tough on your children.
Again, that is usually happened in country-side communities with high influence of religious zealots. It shouldn't be the case in a bigger city (although there're other bad things there).
[quote=anonnym;46776424]The summer of 2012...........
I apologize as I posted this response while my husband's and my original account was up and didn't notice (I had even forgotten about it).
The response was to a comment and I never meant the thread to go any way but to understand if we would meet with antagonism in Two Rivers and if so, was there a place we could just lead a normal life.
I think, thanks to really some wonderful and kind people here, that we are going to look to Milwaukee.
I truly appreciate everyone whom gave me some ideas of what life could be like for us there-I don't want to make another mistake with regards to where we make a home.
Having said that, your son will do just fine here as long as he does NOT make it an issue himself. Otherwise no one here could care less.
And by this, what you really mean is 'If he never mentions it or no one ever finds out, he'll do just fine."
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRlaura
I have no idea what the above "barrage of quotes" has to do with this thread, but as far as Two Rivers is concerned, no one here could care less.
Maybe read before posting. You got defensive immediately & for no reason. Very telling.
OP, as you just mentioned, I would stick with Milwaukee or Madison. I'd avoid anything smaller with a 10 foot pole. The people in those smaller places just lack any type of empathy or ability to accept those unlike themselves.
The summer of 2012, we closed our facebook pages for all the hate that came from my son's father and his family (my ex-husband) then a barrage of quotes from the bible all over his page from people we never met comparing him to the devil and using the word 'freak' and abomination. Three weeks after the facebook page was closed, we received a visit from his grandfather to our home. He had driven 12 hours non stop to pound on our door, barge his way in while my husband was out and try to physically attack my son. When I barred his entrance, he shoved me into a wall calling my son the most offensive words imaginable. My husband arrived and called the sheriff when he would not leave our home and continued yelling. The sheriff arrived, spoke to my son's grandfather in an agreeable manner. His grandfather left, the sheriff proceeded then to make my son feel as if it was his doing, looked him from head to toe in an offensive manner, called him 'son' in the same manner and tried to sit him down to talk to him about what he was doing to provoke good people. We said that was enough and asked him to leave.
Three weeks later, my son and daughter went to the bus stop that was almost directly in front of our home at the corner. My son always stayed more away from the kids with one friend he kept. I watched three teenage girls from the high school and their siblings from the middle school approach my son and his friend in an aggressive manner. My son's friend said something to them and they responded by physically moving into their space in a threatening manner. My daughter (then 11) came over and was pushed by one of the middle school girls. I ran out but by the time I had gotten there, the girls were already pushing my son and becoming aggressive. One of the mothers of the girls whom were siblings in both schools, came over and began screaming at me and my children offensively, swearing incoherently and then proceeded to get into her car while we were running back to the house. We lived off of a dirt road and had a front gate so it took us a moment or two to get in to our property. She drove aggressively yelling out of the window. The police were called. The same sheriff came and stated that he didn't see anything, proceeded to again implicitly blame my son and treat him disrespectfully. I became very angry but my son said quietly to me, with a very red face but calm, to be careful and not to worry; that he was fine. I told the sheriff to leave. The bullying progressed in the next days. I filed a complaint against the girls and other students were required to make witness statements. In response, parents were angry and my daughter was coming home going into her room and crying. She lost the few friends she had made and was put down in school. I put in a complaint against the sheriff and the schools-both together on the same property even though they were middle and high school. My daughter was in elementary school but all three schools were attached. In response to that, I received a call from my son at school to come get him. He was beyond upset and sounded panicked. There I was confronted by the school security and two police whom were told to search my son as he exited the bus in front of all his class mates. My son has implements and he is extremely shy about that. At the time he was embarrassed but to be patted down from head to toe in front of everyone was just humiliating to him.
I changed schools. By the time was son was 16, he requested to drop out and we were more then supportive of this. My daughter was fine in the new school for a few months until a new student befriended her. We were very happy. The girl's mother seemed to be a nice person that loved my daughter. Her friend slept over one night. By the next day, she had told the school about my son and my daughter was again bullied. The school was not against her by any means but neither supportive nor helpful. She was crying constantly. Social interaction with other kids? Zero except to bully her daily. I don't need to go on. It didn't get better. We pulled the kids out, put the house up for rent for all the threats my kids would get just for walking outside or riding a bike. We moved to the next larger city area. We kept to ourselves, my kids walked around but no, they didn't socialize with other kids. For a couple years, this was fine. Until the place we live was sold to new owners and new renters came in. New kids came into the complex and again began harassing my family each time they would go for a walk or leave anywhere to ride their bike. The parents seemed to care but the latest incident involved an 8 year old whom repeated some extremely offensive words and made comments to the fact that my son wore a 'bra' (relating to the binder he wears that must have been seen under his tank when he took a walk on a very hot day). I spoke to the father, whom at first froze when I repeated what his son said and then defensively stated that his son was told not to even be around 'those kind of people'. He was unreasonable to both my husband and I when we stated that we just wanted to be left alone and we would stay out of their way. We left. My daughter's last attempt at 'socialization' with other area school children here was thwarted by the grandfather of the 15 year old whom told his daughter and granddaughter that she was not allowed to be around my daughter and the 'freak' in the family. The family is very old school Christian and has made comments against my family in a way 'not intended to be insulting, just a difference of opinion'. We accepted that as we wanted our daughter to have a friend. My daughter however, just couldn't let the family make a comment against her brother that was stated in the way of a biblical quote. The grandfather told her to leave when she asked nicely to please not talk about her brother that way. The mother came to apologize but stated she had to go by her father's wishes as he was head of the family.
My son presents well. He appears to be a 16 year old boy whom could pass as a gay young man. We have been lucky. My son will be a man. He has had over a year of counseling (we had to drive 2 hours for that each time-was the closest person we could find). He has begun his shots (travel the same distance for this as well). His name is just been changed. His birth certificate never will be. He is scheduled to have his surgery this summer. I don't know how he will be in the future as a man. He has not been threatened for the reason that he appears young now. I am not sure of the future and it's a fear he has. Laws can change, bills can even be supportive. They will not change people whom already fear and hate. My son can't get a job for the background check even after the name change. There are laws even here for now against discrimination. I assure you, it still happens. I have confronted at least 3 managers whom are hiring for local restaurants that have become awkward and defensive when I asked what my son could do for an interview. He volunteered at a local thrift store. Each hour of credit is given to a local person whom needs clothes, furniture, etc. He worked two weeks there without problems until the owner came and asked him to move furniture all day in and out of trucks. When it became clear that my son is transgender, I was called to come get him early then told by the owner he would not have 'any he/she's working at his store. The young women whom worked and supervised him looked at his with a lot of sympathy and gave my son a hug after the owner left the room but it did a lot to my son.
The year my son turned 18, I had put aside a healthy amount to take everyone for a special day at the mall and out. I wanted to get my son a complete new style to help make him feel less depressed about himself as everything was just taking their toll on him. He had a great time at the salon and was ready to go get his new clothes in the small mall here. We went into three stores before we were allowed to be helped. The first two greeted us warmly but when we asked to try on clothes, he was denied. My son's body type is small and we are certain that they began questioning his gender when we couldn't find anything but very small sizes to try on. The third store was a very expensive store with hip hop clothes. The man was from Jamaica and was a friendly smiling man whom greeted my son as 'little man'. The store was empty and he was very understanding. The clothes were so big that they almost drowned him but the man quickly took us to areas with tight and colorful jeans as well as small shirts. They were much more expensive; we spent over $600 in that store. We were there some time too but he was amazing to my son and I honestly was close to tears at how much nice this man was to us and how happy he made my son. While my son was changing, he spoke quietly and frankly with us without being explicit. He was very understanding and cautioned us to go further to Orlando next time to a mall as this one was still small and community oriented.
These are only a few days of our life. There are many, many more and the past few weeks have been a nightmare here. I can't even begin to describe them in a way I ever imagined they could be.
I worked for the schools in Chapel Hill, NC for a decade up to ten years ago. I was a full time school bus driver and also worked in a high school cafeteria. The last year I was there, a young group of people began to get signatures to start up a new group in the high school for lgbt. When they approached my co workers during lunch, my supervisor became irrational and told them to take that filth away from the cafeteria. She proceeded to quote scriptures from the bible. I was shocked and the poor young man meekly walked away. I confronted my manager and supervisor during clean up (both of whom attended the same local church). I was told in a professional manner that it was at their discretion what they would allow although the supervisor was reprimanded for not bringing it to her attention first. I left that job that same week but kept school bus driving. There are many people in that community that were very open minded to the lgbt community but there were just as many extremely prejudiced and while I wasn't in contact with the entire state, I can assure you the close minded I were in contact came in very large numbers, many whom were from the local churches of all backgrounds. I would also never think to go near that state for my son to even try to enter a restroom. I happen to love him and don't want him hurt. We are also very careful even here.
Before you offer your 'food for thought' in your pre judgements on my choices and life for my family, I invite you to walk even one day in my shoes. I don't want to enter into anything other then the life for us should we relocate; I live every day defending our lives and being judged by people whom don't see us a human beings or worse, those whom try to advise me how I should be good mother with the best of intentions based on their own judgement of what a good life should be and how I can make my children happy. I think if you didn't want to change this thread, you would not have entered a comment.
Great write up.
Although you attempted to project your frustrations on me at the end, I’ll still provide a thorough response from a former Wisconsinite’s view. Obviously I wouldn’t be replying to the thread if I were not trying to help.
Let’s start with your relatives. They sound batsh*t crazy. I travel frequently and feel confident in saying these extreme Catholicism types are a minority primarily concentrated in rural communities. These types of communities exist in WI, in larger numbers that most states. Venture 45min out of Two Rivers or Milwaukee and you’ll undoubtedly find them
I would venture to say the middle-school conflict your daughter experienced is “normal” but I’m sure you’d be happy to write a few more paragraphs claiming it’s not. I can’t imagine you lived your life in Public School without encountering traumatic conflict. Although, a new school in a diverse area could certainly be to her benefit. Milwaukee would be good for that. Sounds like you’re living in an isolated community where biases such as this are harbored, growing without any quantifiable resistance due to a lack of worldly (or even regional) perspective.
Eight year old kids are going to speak their brutally honest observations regardless of their upbringing. Not much to dwell on there.
If your son is being turned down by clothing stores based on being transgender, maybe he is not as “passable” as you think. As I’m sure he’s discovered, clothes won’t be of much assistance. Lots of studies on this so no point in elaborating.
I suggest not interfering in your son’s hiring process as it seems you did with those three managers. This is what is commonly known as “helicopter parenting” and is frowned upon. Everywhere. Tenfold for a child of adult age. It will ultimately be to his benefit as he faces many challenges ahead. These are not unique challenges. Your son can find support groups online and in person to help navigate the LGBT waters.
So as you reflect on this random internet post, likely with a furrowed brow and in a fit of anger, remember you came to City-Data in search of not a place…but happiness for your family. You’ve got more than a handful of people responding, including myself, trying to help with that. Maybe after this reflection you can be more civil with those who spend the time to read your stories and lend a hand.
If not…well…best of luck.
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