Is Wisconsin really THAT conservative? (Milwaukee, Madison: loan, taxes, shop)

[everwinter]

Originally Posted by cheese plate

There are dozens of articles on Obama and the "Driftless Effect" that was one of the keys to winning the election, just do a simple search: TheMoneyIllusion » Was the Driftless Area Obama’s ace in the hole?

I did a simple search & only 2 came up. Both blogs. The blog you linked above by someone who went to school in Madison & Chicago, so an obvious interest in the local area & another blog by someone in Chicago.

I used keywords on google such as "driftless area obama" "southwest wisconsin democrat" "driftless area democrat" I don't see SW Wisconsin as being that unique in voting.

Olympic Peninsula of Washington is not urban. Not even close.

[cheese plate]

Originally Posted by everwinter

I did a simple search & only 2 came up. Both blogs. The blog you linked above by someone who went to school in Madison & Chicago, so an obvious interest in the local area & another blog by someone in Chicago.

I used keywords on google such as "driftless area obama" "southwest wisconsin democrat" "driftless area democrat" I don't see SW Wisconsin as being that unique in voting.

Olympic Peninsula of Washington is not urban. Not even close.

The hell are you talking about? "driftless area obama" or something like that turns up thousands of links. The people who wrote the articles are from all over the country. At even a cursory glance, here are the first 5 results regarding Obama and how the Driftless region was a key to why he won the election:

TheMoneyIllusion » Was the Driftless Area Obama’s ace in the hole?
Political Geography, Part 3: The Midwest#
Going Blue in the Driftless Area
Iowa, Minnesota, and the Anomalous Zone on the U.S. Electoral Map | GeoCurrents
https://fitzwalkerstan.wordpress.com...riftless-area/

There are many more. It was an extremely common topic of conversation after the election.

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Just in the 8-9 blue counties surrounding Seattle, there are over 4,500,000 people. How is this not an urban area? You do realize that the Driftless, in its 4 state entirety (which is a much, much, much bigger area), has only a tiny fraction of that population, right?

Not only that - there are not real metro areas within the Driftless. There isn't a city over 60,000 people in the entire region. It's all farms and woods. The "West Coast" blue blocks are both within the sociopolitical sway of 2 large metro areas, Seattle (3,500,000 metro population) and Portland (2,300,000 metro population).

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You don't see anything "unique" about the Driftless white/rural voting block? Well, everyone else does! Or you can look at a map for christsakes (source: New York Times. It's over there on the east coast. Not Chicago or anywhere else in the Midwest. Just so you know.):

[everwinter]

Originally Posted by cheese plate

The hell are you talking about? "driftless area obama" or something like that turns up thousands of links. The people who wrote the articles are from all over the country.

I used google, & like I said, I had 2 articles come up, which were blogs. Blogs can be iffy because many times, anybody can write a blog. The 2nd article you linked below is a breakdown of the entire midwest voting with 1 reference to the driftless area. Doesn't say a lot about how unique the driftless area is. From the article -
"Our last state is Wisconsin, where the Democratic path to victory consists of performing strongly in urban Milwaukee, liberal Madison, the rural Driftless Area, as well as the more Native American areas in the north of the state."
-3rd article is by an Iowa native, who lives in Chicago. A local interest.
-4th article is solid. Well done. I like the term "Upper Mississippi River Anomaly." Those are likely the search words I should have used.

Originally Posted by cheese plate

Just in the 8-9 blue counties surrounding Seattle, there are over 4,500,000 people. How is this not an urban area?

Clallam county population is 72k. Jefferson county is 30k. You're looking at anywhere from a 2-4 hour drive just to Olympia which has 48k people. Tacoma is further East. And don't calculate the time it would take to take the ferry across the Puget Sound to Seattle. It's expensive & not used that much in the grand scheme. I lived in Tacoma for a year & later in an East Seattle suburb (Bellevue). The Olympic peninsula is more isolated than some think.

Originally Posted by cheese plate

You do realize that the Driftless, in its 4 state entirety (which is a much, much, much bigger area), has only a tiny fraction of that population, right? Not only that - there are not real metro areas within the Driftless. There isn't a city over 60,000 people in the entire region. It's all farms and woods. The "West Coast" blue blocks are both within the sociopolitical sway of 2 large metro areas, Seattle (3,500,000 metro population) and Portland (2,300,000 metro population).

I do realize it covers 4 states. I grew up in the driftless area. I never considered myself that isolated where I grew up. How could I when Madison was only an 75 min away? Dubuque - 30 min. Of course there are other cities in or near the driftless area. La Crosse, Dubuque, Quad Cities, Cedar Rapids. Sure, Madison/Dubuque isn't a Portland, but you make it sound like the driftless area is in the middle of Wyoming or Montana where it takes half a day to get to a decent sized town/city. Drive from the Continental Divide to Wisconsin & it's easy to see that Wisconsin isn't nearly as spread out as most of the land in the country. Maybe I'm biased because I grew up in the driftless area, so it doesn't seem as rural to me.

Originally Posted by cheese plate

You don't see anything "unique" about the Driftless white/rural voting block? Well, everyone else does! Or you can look at a map for christsakes (source: New York Times. It's over there on the east coast. Not Chicago or anywhere else in the Midwest. Just so you know.):

I sense some agitation. Grab some popcorn Albert. Again, I'm staying by my point that I don't consider the driftless area that unique. Looking at the map in your post, I can see other rural white areas that are voting blue.
Lots in the south, New Mexico, central Oregon, Southern Colorado, Northern Arizona, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine. Or do those not count because they're east coast or too close to cities? Or, are you going to say the south, New Mexico, Northern AZ, South Central Colorado isn't white, & New Hampshire & Vermont do not count because it's the east coast, & Central Oregon is on the west coast? Here are some states pointed out in an article that also have rural white democratic voters. Driftless area isn't the only region of the country that includes this demographic. 6 States Where Non-Wealthy Rural White People Actually Vote In Their Economic Interests Instead of Jamie Dimon's | Alternet

[94buickcentury]

When it comes to Wisconsin and its politics, I guess you can say that Wisconsin is this weird bipolar woman that comes over for dinner. She says one thing on the extreme, but went to a whole different extreme. Milwaukee and Madison is very liberal and when you go to Waukesha and Cedarburg, it is extremely conservative. When I used to go to Waukesha County Tech, there was someone from Milwaukee collecting signatures to recall Scott Walker and he had every right to since he was carrying a permit. An instructor threatened him to leave the campus or the police will be called (again, he had every right to). She even tried forcing the recall signatures out of his hand and touched the guy. Honestly, there is no place in Wisconsin that I can recall is a good place for moderates or independents. Before I moved, all I hear on the radio is Scott Walker this, Scott Walker that. No one talks about anything else. They turned politics into a penis and shove it in your face. Like people are so in your face politics in the state it isn't even funny. I don't mind politics once in a while, but not every single day.

[MKEastsider]

Originally Posted by 94buickcentury

When it comes to Wisconsin and its politics, I guess you can say that Wisconsin is this weird bipolar woman that comes over for dinner. She says one thing on the extreme, but went to a whole different extreme. Milwaukee and Madison is very liberal and when you go to Waukesha and Cedarburg, it is extremely conservative. When I used to go to Waukesha County Tech, there was someone from Milwaukee collecting signatures to recall Scott Walker and he had every right to since he was carrying a permit. An instructor threatened him to leave the campus or the police will be called (again, he had every right to). She even tried forcing the recall signatures out of his hand and touched the guy. Honestly, there is no place in Wisconsin that I can recall is a good place for moderates or independents. Before I moved, all I hear on the radio is Scott Walker this, Scott Walker that. No one talks about anything else. They turned politics into a penis and shove it in your face. Like people are so in your face politics in the state it isn't even funny. I don't mind politics once in a while, but not every single day.

This is painfully accurate, and frankly, this is why I have so much hostility towards Scott Walker and the WI-GOP. I don't want to get political as often as I do, yet I'm forced to simply because their divide and conquer strategy is so pervasive, it finds its way into every other aspect of life in Wisconsin. The party of "family values" has literally torn so many families apart with this nonsense.

[timberline742]

This will show those poor people! No tomato sauce or potatoes for you!!!

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/public.../p4/p44578.pdf

Addicting Info – Wisconsin GOP Passes Bill Banning Poor People From Buying Shellfish, Potatoes And Ketchup

[MovingBadger]

It always amazes me how the so called proponents of "small government" feel comfortable telling people how to eat. Same ones who were critical of Bloomberg for trying to regulate soda size are probably all for this. I get that if you get government money you have to agree to their conditions but doesn't seem very liberty loving to me.

And I am no progressive, they tend to be pretty similar in thinking they know best for other people. Its a problem with political parties and government over reach by either side - eventually someone decides they know better than you how to run your life and force that on others

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by MovingBadger

It always amazes me how the so called proponents of "small government" feel comfortable telling people how to eat. Same ones who were critical of Bloomberg for trying to regulate soda size are probably all for this. I get that if you get government money you have to agree to their conditions but doesn't seem very liberty loving to me.

And I am no progressive, they tend to be pretty similar in thinking they know best for other people. Its a problem with political parties and government over reach by either side - eventually someone decides they know better than you how to run your life and force that on others

The entire concept of people suckling on the taxpayer teat is not very liberty loving.

The referenced blog was melodramatic and just an attempt to gin up GOP hate.
No entity is forcing anything or banning folk from buying a desired food. Just don't use taxpayer funds for it.


If you don't like that - perhaps better approach would be to whittle down or eliminate SNAP program.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

If you don't like that - perhaps better approach would be to whittle down or eliminate SNAP program.

Yes, because an increase in malnourishment would be fantastic.

[MassVt]

The tome "What's the Matter With Kansas" goes back to E.B. White, many decades ago..

There are a number of rural blue voting sections around the country, besides much of New England. I'd say western WI ( around LaCrosse, and a few counties around Dane, the Iron Range in northern Minnesota ( and other nearby sections), sections of mid-Michigan, eastern Iowa, etc. Not extraordinarily common outside of the Northeast ( and esp New England, which is loaded with them), but they exist.