leaving wisconsin survey (Milwaukee, Madison, Green Bay: high school, casinos, taxi)

[Solas]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

I'm so sick of people like you using this phony-ass argument. Yes, they're not as intelligent or well traveled as your average city-dweller, but it's not a phenomenon that's unique to Northern WI. Do you think the people in Bakersfield or Fresno are going to be as worldly or sophisticated as the people in SF or Santa Barbara? I'm guessing they're not. So why do people in Green Bay and Wausau need to be?

There's a lot of room between being "worldly or sophisticated" and being completely ignorant towards anything that goes on outside your bubble. For the most part, the latter is what you see anytime you venture north of the Dells. Even Southern Illinois, despite being almost a carbon copy of Outstate Wisconsin demographically, is noticeably more open to new ideas and experiences.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Really? Madison would be better off in Alabama? Milwaukee would be better off in North Dakota?

Well I do know that Alabamians don't act like Birmingham doesn't represent the "real" Alabama and pretend it's not even part of the state.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Most "rednecks" won't even set foot in the City of Milwaukee, so I'm not sure who these people are you're describing. It sounds more like college students having a good time, which is the whole point of Summerfest.

Then apparently you've never been to Summerfest when Toby Keith or Big & Rich was performing.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

You only need to be 18 years old to run for alderman, school board, or state senator. People in our age range aren't interested in politics, so the boomers get to have their way. It's pretty elementary.

It's not that simple. The boomers have a huge long-standing old boys network to draw money and support from which includes much of the local media... especially the Journal-Sentinel (and Journal Communications in general). How many people can name just ONE person that ran against Tom Barrett in the last mayoral election? That's not an accident. Just like it's not an accident that it was the only newspaper in the state that didn't report that Scott Walker was being investigated by the feds for fraudulent activity last year.

And to think... one of those guys is (more than likely) about hold the most powerful office in Wisconsin for the next four years

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Our biggest problem is the animosity the suburban counties seem to have towards Milwaukee, not the beer, brats, and bowling image the city portrays. If anything, that image has helped Milwaukee stay relevant. Look at all the hipsters who drink PBR now and embrace our blue collar kitschiness.

My point is that every "trendy" new neighborhood that emerges (i.e. Riverwest, Bay View, Third Ward, Walkers Point, Brewers Hill, Sherman Park, etc.) is talked about for how "unique" it is compared to the rest of the city. But at this point, the trendy neighborhoods make up a majority of the city, so why do we still act they represent some kind of exception rather than where Milwaukee really is in 2010? As if it's some kind of sacrilege to acknowledge that our city has evolved culturally since the time period that Garry Marshall's corny sitcoms took place in.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

I wish you the best of luck, but now you're officially part of the problem. If all the young college educated people like you keep leaving for SF, Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis, and Austin, then how is Milwaukee ever supposed to revitalize itself? You can blame the baby-boomers, but they'll still be here and you won't.

Peace to you for the well-wishes. I haven't ruled out the possibility of returning to Milwaukee... in fact, I'm going into this with the idea that I'll be coming back in a few years. But there's not much I can do if I feel too defeated and disillusioned to draw the motivation to try and change things. Unfortunately, the only way I MIGHT be able to help the situation here is to remove myself from all the pettiness and politics that strangle the economic and cultural growth around here.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

P.S.
I hope you're going to be living in Dublin or Pittsburg or somewhere, because a studio apt costs about $1200 or so a month in SF and I never got the feeling that you were a very wealthy individual.

I have somewhere to stay until I get on my feet (otherwise there's no way I'd be able to move out there), but when it comes time to get a place of my own, I'm probably gonna be looking at Oakland or one of the smaller cities for this reason.

[notmuch69]

I like the point Solas made concerning the frat party atmosphere. Over drinking, public drunkenness and the need to consumer large amounts of alcohol at public functions is sickening. I can't stand being around drunken morons and far to many people in this state make excuses for it. Badger games, Summerfest, Packers games, Brewer games, State Fair, Ethnic Festivals, any UW campus and you will find drunks/morons. I wont attend some of the above mentioned due to drinking. It makes us look like a bunch of clowns the way we accept this behavior. There is far to much acceptance of over drinking and what results because of it. We can have a good time in this state without the constant need to consume large amounts of beer. It's time we moved pass this.

Good times like the German heritage.

[Deelightful]

Hello everyone,

I'm going to be leaving Wisconsin as soon as my home sales.

I've lived in Wisconsin all of my life. I'm so tired of the long winters. There are some that say that the summer makes up for the winter...but don't believe them. Once summer comes, you tend to try to fit everything you can into that summer. Yes...The summer festivals are great, but you can find festivals just about anywhere.

Also, there's not a lot to do once winter sets in. I always say that people tend to hibernate during the winter. There's a constant overcast of clouds. A lot of people tend to suffer with winter blues/depression from the lack of sunlight.

Finally, there's not a lot of opportunity for growth professionally.

Dee

[notmuch69]

Winter is fun if you live in the country! Get out on a sled, ski's, ATVs, snowmobiles, etc. All seasons are fun!

[Solas]

Originally Posted by notmuch69

Good times like the German heritage.

I can promise you that most of whats tolerated in Milwaukee is NOT tolerated in Munich... and they don't even have a drinking age.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Solas

There's a lot of room between being "worldly or sophisticated" and being completely ignorant towards anything that goes on outside your bubble. For the most part, the latter is what you see anytime you venture north of the Dells. Even Southern Illinois, despite being almost a carbon copy of Outstate Wisconsin demographically, is noticeably more open to new ideas and experiences.

This is hilarious. I've actually lived in downstate Illinois, and I'd rather live in northern Wisconsin for the rest of my life than spend one more year in that reactionary Deliverance backwater. Just the thought of living there ever again gives me a knot in my stomach. The day that place was in my rear-view mirror for the last time was literally one of the best days of my life.

[mlb]

Very interesting reading, this thread. As one who grew up in Wisconsin, but left 35 years ago - I have a pretty good perspective. I do come back yearly (or every 18 months) to see family. But I truly believe it's important to leave the place you were born - so that you can get a taste of life "on the outside".

While I may never live in Wisconsin again, it does have my heart. Wisconsin taught me the value of the outdoors, of taking long walks in the woods - of enjoying the solace and quiet of a winter's day. My childhood memories of vacations in Northern Wisconsin in lake resorts - are priceless. I've never been able to match that experience. But I've tried.

Those of you who are escaping to California - you'll be in for a big surprise. Most Californians want to leave too. You think taxes in WI are high? Just you wait. The state is in a veritable shambles. You'll just be contributing to the problem.

Better be careful what you ask for - you just might get it and then some.

Wisconsin is a special place. I would never take it for granted.

[Stone1]

Wife and I grew up in WI and out of 50 years we have lived here for 48 of them. There are many nice things about WI but the down side is winters are too long now, but when I was younger I loved the long winter. The taxes compared to wages are among the worst. As you can tell we are planning to leave at retirement time for a milder climate and lower taxed state, most likely TN will be our choice.

On a plus note there has been some interest by some WI politicians to eliminate income tax on retirement income, if that happens, it would be some incentive to stay.

About two years ago the state was trying to figure out what could be done to keep retirees and college grads. in the state. They have not figured it out yet.

[Solas]

Originally Posted by Drover

This is hilarious. I've actually lived in downstate Illinois, and I'd rather live in northern Wisconsin for the rest of my life than spend one more year in that reactionary Deliverance backwater. Just the thought of living there ever again gives me a knot in my stomach. The day that place was in my rear-view mirror for the last time was literally one of the best days of my life.

Hmmm... "reactionary deliverance backwater" is exactly how I'd describe rural NE Wisconsin. I had to stop visiting my family upstate while I was dating my ex (who was African... as in born in Ghana, West Africa) because people would stare like they'd never seen a black person before. As backwards as I'm sure Southern Illinois can be, I can honestly say we never had to deal with anything like that there which we traveled through quite often as a lot of her family was situated in St. Louis. At most, some redneck would roll their eyes, but keep it moving.

[Drover]

Oh no -- stares!! If that's the worst of it, I'd say you got off easy.

Compare that to the school district where my wife lived downstate that chased a lesbian teacher not just out of the school district but out of town. And there was nothing uniquely different sociopolitically about this town versus any other random ditchwater redneckville down there.

"Progressive" my ass.