Newsflash CD'ers!: WI / MKE are NOT "conservative" (Milwaukee: vs, suburban)

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

For what it is worth, I believe Waukesha county had the second highest vote percentage for W in his first election. Highest percentage in the country except for his home county in Texas.

There are definetely WI pockets of conservatism just like there are WI pockets of liberalism.

I think this is true in any state.

We moved to IL (Chicago area) last year. There are conservative enclaves here even though most consider this town to be quite liberal overall. (They are frustrated people but they are definitely here)

This is a completely fair and agreed-to post.



Waukesha County (and Washington County) are extremely conservative areas. Ozaukee County - for the most part - is as well.

My rant is not directed to, if someone desires liberalism let's say, complains that Waukesha County is too conservative (although then I would somewhat question the sanity of why that person would even want to live in Waukesha County in the first place).

My rant is directed to those that say "Wisconsin" or "Milwaukee" are "very conservative" which is just laughable. Wisconsin - laughable as a collective whole, and Milwaukee, just laughable in general because there is very little conservatism in the history of the city of Milwaukee.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by susancruzs

Iowa (my sister lives there) is notoriously conservative and to lump Wisconsin with Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas is just plain silly.

For the most part, I agree with your kind post susancruzs, however, even this comment about Iowa I would respectfully disagree with.

I think somehow people confuse on these forums "conservative" (in the more societal meaning of more traditional, social values) and displace it into the political meaning "conservative" (which branches into several areas such as the belief in limited government, small government, lower taxes, less spending, etc., as well as social political conservatism such as areas such as abortion, gay marriage, gun rights, etc.).

Politically, Iowa is barely more conservative than Wisconsin.

Consider...

1. Iowa's current governor is Chet Culver, a Democrat. He took over for Tom Vilsack, a fairly liberal Democrat who had held office in popularity since 1999.

Granted, before Vilsack, the GOP dominated the governor's office in Iowa (in a way that would be completely foreign to Wisconsin) with Gov.'s Branstad and before him Ray - both Republicans - dominating the office from the late-60s! to Vilsack. However, the fact now remains that the Dems have held the governorship in Iowa for nearly a decade.

2. Iowa's senators are split - unlike Wisconsin which has had two Democratic senators for a long time, they have one Republican (Grassley). However, the other senator is a long, long time senator who is a prominent liberal Democrat - Tom Harkin; Harkin's been around forever too.

3. As for US House of Representatives congressmen from Iowa, Iowa gets 5 reps: 3 of them are Democrats (Loebsack, Braley, and Boswell). Only Latham and King are Republicans.

So at the Governorship and US Reps level, Iowa is Democratic, and the Senators are split (but Harkin is the perceived powerful one).

4. At the local levels, Des Moines if obviously the biggest city in Iowa, and yep, Mayor T. M. Franklin Cownie is a Democrat.

Iowa City houses the University of Iowa and is a fairly liberal spot as most big college towns are.

5. Now...as for how the state votes on presidential elections:

2008: BIG TIME for Obama (in fact, the primary win with Iowa somewhat surprisingly going for Obama helped propel his entire campaign over somewhat less liberal primary opponents).

2004: A rare Republican victory going slightly for Pres. Bush
2000: Democrat (Gore)
1996: Democrat (Clinton)
1992: Democrat (Clinton)
1988: Democrat (Dukakis)* *Somewhat notable in that 1988 was an absolute electoral landslide (Bush beat Dukakis 426 to 111 and only, I believe 10 states going to the Democrat; Iowa, like Wisconsin, was one of those 10).
1984: Republican (Regan)* *Although every state outside of MN went to Regan in just a stomping

(I will cede that prior to the change in 1988 to Dukakis, Iowa *used* to be a more reliable Republican / conservative presidential voting state, as it went GOP in 80, 76, 72, 68, etc.); however, since the Regan years, Iowa's been pretty liberal / Democratic in presidential voting.

6.Currently, the Iowa State Senate is Democratic controlled, with 60% of the Senators being Democrats (30 to 20 GOP'ers). Also, the Iowa House of Representatives is controlled by the Dems (53 to 47).

So...Iowa has a Democratic Governor, State Senate, and State House. Plus it voted Dem in the election.



So Nebraska, the Dakotas, Kansas, etc., are indeed generally more politically conservative / Republican-aligned, however, voting patterns sure seem to paint Iowa more in the same light as Wisconsin or Minnesota now - a fairly Democratic / liberal state.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by susancruzs

farmers tend to go conservative.

I think historically they did more, however, that has changed, as farmers have become quite big fans of government subsidies (eg: spending) for things like ethanol production. This is why Iowa often solidly supports liberal Democrats over conservative Republicans (among other reasons).

[KateDaum]

My uncle was a farmer and was very liberal. When we moved here we were glad to find a good mix of conservatives and liberals. We tend to be more liberal but I do appreciate both sides.

[susancruzs]

Interesting points about Iowa that I didn't know and those I listened to when visiting there recently are probably having a last grasp at their "conservative" straws!

[ccjarider]

Having worked on farms in WI and SD, I always got a kick out of guys who would complain about the heavy hand of gov't inserting itself into how they worked their land (or any other issue for that matter) but would defend their farm subsidy.

The did not appreciate me pointing out the hypocrisy of their positions.

The market would insure adequate food supply although society may have to endure more price fluctuation than people are comfortable with.

[crazyme4878]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

Yeah, I re-read that this morning after ranting last night and I was probably a little overboard.

But look, my post wasn't in any way to be "pro-liberal" or "pro-conservative" or "anti-liberal" or "anti-conservative". It really wasn't. ....

No worries--I wasn't trying to be negative, just the opposite, in fact. It does get tiring of hearing people bang against your state over and over for the same things, especially when they are untrue. I really meant it--sometimes we all need to rant a little. I must commend you on how well you ranted, though! Well thought out and the facts to support it. I have tried saying the same thing in older threads, but I didn't have the facts to support like you did.

[everwinter]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

For what it is worth, I believe Waukesha county had the second highest vote percentage for W in his first election. Highest percentage in the country except for his home county in Texas.

I can't let this one slide.
Waukesha county wasn't even in the top 100, so forget 2nd. Actually looks more like only 67% voted for Bush.
100 most Republican counties in 2000 presidential election (http://www.statesman.com/specialreports/content/specialreports/greatdivide/091904_chart_gop.html - broken link)

[ccjarider]

oops! Well it was a longtime ago. I thought it was right up there at #2, but guess I was wrong.

[Empidonax]

Good post, EP; I agree that claims of Wisconsin's conservatism are greatly exaggerated. I lived in the rural south for a couple of years before coming to Wisconsin, so I've had a dose of real conservatism; even the most conservative parts of Wisconsin are on a different plane. However, though liberalism--and sometimes radical liberalism--find great expression in some cities and even in statewide politics here, there are limits: the recent statewide vote in favor of a ban on gay marriage and domestic partnerships is an example. The fact that other states are more liberal on that issue suggests that Wisconsin's liberalism is in fact somewhat moderate; voters are moderate/liberal, but are willing to elect people more liberal and conservative than themselves. A Wisconsin voter may simultaneously vote for a Tommy Thompson and a Herb Kohl and not flinch at all. I didn't find this sort of flexible or moderate thinking in Alabama.