Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,012,380 times
Reputation: 36027
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers29
Given I don't live in an illegal immigrant-appeasing state like California I'd be much more affected by $4 heads of lettuce than the reduction in indirect public costs. But I agree with the rest of your post.
Do you honestly think that the federal government does not step in to assist California? Regardless of which state you reside in, we ALL deal with federal taxes so indirectly, we ALL pay for illegal immigration. Although California and other SW states have bigger issues with illegal immigration, illegals do reside within other states as well so the whole nation is affected.
Do you honestly think that the federal government does not step in to assist California? Regardless of which state you reside in, we ALL deal with federal taxes so indirectly, we ALL pay for illegal immigration. Although California and other SW states have bigger issues with illegal immigration, illegals do reside within other states as well so the whole nation is affected.
I think it's time to hit up the illegal employers for the costs of illegal immigration. Those fat cats have been getting quite rich bringing in truckloads of illegals - and look at the money they pocket by failing to provide health insurance, overtime pay, adequate wages for housing and food.
No one is going to object to the assets of these crooks being seized to compensate the taxpayers for all this.
If there were no illegal immigration to begin with, the jobs would be competitively waged just as other undesirable jobs. Do you honestly think that agricultural farm working is less desirable than garbage collecting? Last I check, we have no shortages of garbage collectors because those positions are competitive in terms of wages. Don't even start with the $4 head of lettuce nonsense as that would be far cheaper than the indirect costs of over crowded schools, ERs, public assistance and bilingual programs for those who refuse to learn English.
Yes - you can get pretty fed up with the argument that no Americans is ambitious enough to do these jobs when you see Americans being sent to die in Afghanistan and Iraq, sweating in the hot desert, doing very dangerous work and living far from their loved ones.
And our limp wristed politicians grovel at the feet of foreign leaders who slam the American people and insist we must take unlimited numbers of their unwanted excess peons because Americans are too lazy to work.
Yes - you can get pretty fed up with the argument that no Americans is ambitious enough to do these jobs when you see Americans being sent to die in Afghanistan and Iraq, sweating in the hot desert, doing very dangerous work and living far from their loved ones.
And our limp wristed politicians grovel at the feet of foreign leaders who slam the American people and insist we must take unlimited numbers of their unwanted excess peons because Americans are too lazy to work.
I am an American that would gladly do this job. In fact, I have done jobs such as these before, working as an only American among a see of foreigners here on work visas.
Do you want to know the real reason why Americans aren't doing these jobs? B/c employers don't hire them for such positions, which is why Americans don't even bother applying anymore. Americans aren't hired b/c they demand a fair wage, fair hours and health insurance. And then, when they do, these "poor" farm workers say that Americans are lazy and spoiled. I have very little sympathy for people who enable their own exploitation.
Moroever, even if an American were to secure a job with a bunch of these workers (I am not just talking about illegals--farm workers are not all illegals), they are a minority and treated as such by the other workers. Something goes wrong? Blame the lazy American. Someone needs to be laid off? Lay off the lazy American. And the lazy American has very little recourse when everyone else is of the same ethnic group and, therefore, loyal to one another. If there were such a thing as reverse discrimination, this would be it.
And the funniest thing is that the stereotype of the lazy American developed as a response to the sterotype of the lazy Mexican.
wont make a darn difference. If the cost rises because americans won't work for the slave wages that illegas do, and the employer's cost go up to cover other basic benefits amaericans will ask for that illegals don't get, that cost will be passed tot he distributor who passes it to the retailer who passes it to the consumer. What do you think would happen? Just like WalMart and their meat, they told the american ranchers to shove it and they buy from overseas. They would do the same for produce. It's not going to create more jobs in the US, it will create more agricultural jobs overseas. Consumers will decide where the jobs will be and what the wages will be. If they buy from the store that imports the produce, other retailers will start switching to foreign suppliers.
Yes - you can get pretty fed up with the argument that no Americans is ambitious enough to do these jobs when you see Americans being sent to die in Afghanistan and Iraq, sweating in the hot desert, doing very dangerous work and living far from their loved ones.
Wow, what an offensive post. I hope one day a veteran spits back on you.
Given I don't live in an illegal immigrant-appeasing state like California I'd be much more affected by $4 heads of lettuce than the reduction in indirect public costs. But I agree with the rest of your post.
Would you take a job picking tomatoes in the hot Arizona sun for $90.60/hr?
Let's put to bed the idea of $4 lettuce as so much malarkey and hogwash that it is.
One of the problems with illegal workers is their willingness to accept low wages drives down wages in some industries. Agricultural work is one of them but the idea they take less than minimum wage is hogwash.
The average farm worker makes $9.06 an hour, compared to $16.75 for non-farm production workers.
The average household spends only about $1 a day on fresh fruits and vegetables.
Labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce. Thus, if farm wages were allowed to rise 40 percent, and if all the costs were passed on to consumers, the cost to the average household would be only about $8 a year.
If government did their job protecting the American worker there would be several million new jobs tomorrow with wages rising to a point where workers would be attracted.
If you're out of work would you take a job picking tomatoes in the hot Arizona sun for $9.06 an hour? For nearly all probably not but it isn't the job it's the pay.
A bag of tomatoes cost $1.00 with the farm labor costs representing $0.06 of that $1.00.
What if we doubled the wage to $18.12 an hour causing farm labor costs to rise to $0.12 raising the cost of a bag of tomatoes to $1.06?
Raise your hand if you would you pick tomatoes in in the hot Arizona sun for $18.12/hr. I see a few more hands go up.
What if we quadrupled that was to $36.24/hour. Would you take a job picking tomatoes in the hot Arizona sun for $36.24/hr adding another $0.12 to that bag of tomatoes now costing $1.18?
I think at $36.24 an hour we'd have a large number of unemployed looking into farm labor opportunities even in the hot sun.
What if they multiplied the $9.06 an hour by a factor of 10. Would you take a job picking tomatoes in the hot Arizona sun for $90.60/hr? I got a sneaking gut feeling lots of you would. I would if I were younger cuz that's more than double what I make now.
With farm labor currently representing 6% if we paid $90.60/hour that bag of tomatoes would rise from $1.00 to $1.54 but if wages were $90.60/hr I don't think farmers would have a problem finding workers.
Illegal aliens do not take jobs Americans refuse to do they create jobs Americans can not afford to do.
I work in the field of construction management and you would not believe the number of illegals I see working commercial construction every single day and these guys are not getting minimum wage. Average wages are around $13.00/hour for general laborers and I live in a very rural area of the country. I can tell they are here illegally because 1)they hardly speak English if any English at all and 2)when you do ask them where they are from and the answer in very broken English is San Salvador don't hogwash me they *might* be here legally on a work visa. I don't buy it.
$13/hr isn't all that much but if there weren't illegal workers wages would go up to at least $16 to $20/hr like it was back in the 80's before the invasion.
And contrary to what many seem to believe the great majority of illegal workers in this country do not work down on the farm.
Wow, what an offensive post. I hope one day a veteran spits back on you.
I believe you misread what I wrote. I was commenting on the argument that Americans are supposedly too lazy too do any kind of hard work - yet we see all kinds of Americans going to Afghanistan and Iraq to do some really hard work.
Would you take a job picking tomatoes in the hot Arizona sun for $90.60/hr?
Let's put to bed the idea of $4 lettuce as so much malarkey and hogwash that it is.
One of the problems with illegal workers is their willingness to accept low wages drives down wages in some industries. Agricultural work is one of them but the idea they take less than minimum wage is hogwash.
If government did their job protecting the American worker there would be several million new jobs tomorrow with wages rising to a point where workers would be attracted.
If you're out of work would you take a job picking tomatoes in the hot Arizona sun for $9.06 an hour? For nearly all probably not but it isn't the job it's the pay.
A bag of tomatoes cost $1.00 with the farm labor costs representing $0.06 of that $1.00.
What if we doubled the wage to $18.12 an hour causing farm labor costs to rise to $0.12 raising the cost of a bag of tomatoes to $1.06?
Raise your hand if you would you pick tomatoes in in the hot Arizona sun for $18.12/hr. I see a few more hands go up.
What if we quadrupled that was to $36.24/hour. Would you take a job picking tomatoes in the hot Arizona sun for $36.24/hr adding another $0.12 to that bag of tomatoes now costing $1.18?
I think at $36.24 an hour we'd have a large number of unemployed looking into farm labor opportunities even in the hot sun.
What if they multiplied the $9.06 an hour by a factor of 10. Would you take a job picking tomatoes in the hot Arizona sun for $90.60/hr? I got a sneaking gut feeling lots of you would. I would if I were younger cuz that's more than double what I make now.
With farm labor currently representing 6% if we paid $90.60/hour that bag of tomatoes would rise from $1.00 to $1.54 but if wages were $90.60/hr I don't think farmers would have a problem finding workers.
Illegal aliens do not take jobs Americans refuse to do they create jobs Americans can not afford to do.
I work in the field of construction management and you would not believe the number of illegals I see working commercial construction every single day and these guys are not getting minimum wage. Average wages are around $13.00/hour for general laborers and I live in a very rural area of the country. I can tell they are here illegally because 1)they hardly speak English if any English at all and 2)when you do ask them where they are from and the answer in very broken English is San Salvador don't hogwash me they *might* be here legally on a work visa. I don't buy it.
$13/hr isn't all that much but if there weren't illegal workers wages would go up to at least $16 to $20/hr like it was back in the 80's before the invasion.
And contrary to what many seem to believe the great majority of illegal workers in this country do not work down on the farm.
For those of us who would do the job--even at $9.06 an hour--the issue isn't wages but safety. Especially as an "anglo" woman, I would not feel safe working as a minority among a bunch of people from a culture that is notorious for being misogynistic and who are here illegally. Not only is there a high risk for being raped or murdered but there would be no way to prove it; these are not people who are going to testify against their own kind. Even if it were proven, the only consequence would be deportation.
I am considered liberal by most standards but even I am getting sick of liberals defending these people. Do they not realize that the majority of farm workers and illegal aliens are extremly uneducated as well as extremely traditional and conservative? But hey, when you sit in an ivory tower and don't actually come into contact with these people, it is very easy to be sympathetic towards their plight.
I wholeheartedly agree that there would actually be a job market for Americans if illegals were not given these jobs. Employers would be forced to pay fair wages and the working environment would be subject to U.S. laws and regulation. I would be the first one in line.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
