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Old 07-10-2007, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Grafton, Ohio
286 posts, read 1,583,555 times
Reputation: 164

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnW View Post
Ah, well, now that I know more of the story.....I would be leary.

I have been in the same line of work for 17 years and I only have had ONE horrible boss. I was not fired but I did leave and I will never use her as a reference. She is so moody I don't really know what she would say if they caught her on a bad day! But it is fine because I have several other great references.

So, the fact that he has NOONE really to give him a great reference......that would concern me.

Dawn
Unfortunately, some of us make employment mistakes and it ends up costing us jobs in the end. I made a huge mistake in 2004 by taking a job that I thought would put me in a better overall position; it gave me benefits that my current position at the time did not give me, plus paid twice as much. Little did I know I would be laid off 90 days later, and that started a nasty downward spiral (it was a production job for a GM supplier; the discontinuation of the Pontiac Grand Am and Olds Alero shut down my line completely and laid off ~60-80 workers with that company). I couldn't get my old job back, they had already replaced me. I went 4 months out of work, then finally landed a this-will-do-for-now position. Eight months later, I was offered a position of a lifetime that put me back in my original field.. only to have a personality conflict with the department director 30 days into it (he had asked inappropriate questions upon my hiring, union got word of it and asked me to testify - which I never got a chance to agree or disagree with - and I was suddenly without a job before I knew what hit me when the director found out the union attorney asked to schedule a meeting with me). Again, several months unemployed, finally got hooked up with a temp position through a friend, laid off again a year later (company sold portfolio, statewide management changeover). The two seemingly opportunity of a lifetime jobs I took have been a thorn in my side ever since... Every interviewer I've discussed my situation with, it the most politest non-negative employer bashing manner possible, treats me like something is wrong with me despite the fact that my job hopping was not intentional. I have no criminal history, there is no drug test that I cannot pass nor have I ever not been able to pass one, I've never stolen from an employer, and my past employers have all had excellent reviews of my capabilities... so why is it so hard for me to land a job and not get the "we're more interested in a career minded candidate" comment?-Guess what, I was interested in keeping my career too, so why don't you all talk to the folks that got rid of me whichever way they managed to because I'd still be working for them and not interviewing with you if that were the case...... I can sympathize with him!

So my question....... Would this star employee been hired had he NOT lied on his application? If those spaces were left blank, would he ever have been considered? What is the chance that a different candidate would have cost the company more time and money had the candidate not worked out?

You're obviously happy with his performance and work ethic. If his performance continues to be an asset, and if there is no evidence or question of evidence that he is stealing, cheating, or wrongly doing the company... then what is the problem? Sure, put him on probation... and if he is the star employee that he has proven so far, he'll skate through that probation period without a problem. If he truly does have faults, they will present themselves during that time.
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Wellsburg, WV
3,250 posts, read 9,149,696 times
Reputation: 3554
Some of your problem also lies with your future government contract.

You will be answerable to them as well. I don't know what type of clearance your company/employees will need but that may factor into it as well.

If a security clearance is required by the government of your employees, will he be able to pass one? Liz
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Happy wherever I am - Florida now
3,360 posts, read 12,224,079 times
Reputation: 3907
I would find out who those two employers were and talk to them. You want to know if he was stealing or anything like that.

If it was just a matter of something that wasn't unethical I think I'd let him stay on his record of good performance that he's had with you.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Missouri
6,044 posts, read 24,016,190 times
Reputation: 5182
That's a pretty elaborate scheme he created; I would be reluctant to trust him. It makes me wonder if he was fired from his past jobs for some sort of dishonesty.
I tend to want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I think it would be best to let him go. Anyone capable of creating such a farce is capable of really screwing over the company.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:51 AM
 
2,434 posts, read 6,658,385 times
Reputation: 1064
Call him into your office for a meeting. Tell him with the new government contract everyone's going to have to be given a new background check. Have him review the original application and let him know the new background check will be very in-depth and any discrepancies listed will be turned up. If he doesn't come clean you can ax him with a clear conscience knowing you gave him a chance to fess up.
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Kansas City Metro area
356 posts, read 1,176,170 times
Reputation: 231
Question My 2 cents worth....with change

The young man has displayed a serious charactor flaw. This does not just happen, it is part of his personality. All the excuses in the world are still just excuses. I would rather have an honest "average" employee than a dishonest "exceptional" employee. What kind of message do you want to send out to your other employees, dishonesty is tolerated? The story will get out.

I personally do not see the problem here. Wash your hands of him, quickly.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
9 posts, read 35,677 times
Reputation: 19
Tough call? Yes. Forgiveness is key here if the employee is as good as you state. How about arranging for this asset to the workplace to perform some sort of community service as a good faith deed to show that there needs to be consequences to cheating on his resume/application?

It is a shame that there are such weighty requirements for positions when there are some people who know they can far exceed the expectations of the employer if just given a chance. If anyone reading this should find themself in a similar situation of being tempted into fabrication of credentials, try offering your services as an employee or volunteer for a certain amount of weeks or months. You just might be surprised what a potential employer will do when faced with such confidence with nothing to lose. There are many talented people who more than qualify for jobs who have little or no formal education. Employers need to consider this when filling a position.

Applicants need to take some sales and negotiating classes or attend a few seminars to present their case up front so as not to have their integrity destroyed. No matter what the outcome... this person will always be viewed as a liar and a cheat who did not play fair in getting a job where other applicants did do the right thing. It looks like a loss no matter the outcome.
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Old 07-11-2007, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
14,229 posts, read 29,902,516 times
Reputation: 27684
Multiple wrongs never make a right. What this individual did wasn't right. Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. It's usually a mistake to judge others by standards you are unable or unwilling to uphold. As a HR person, you know your company misrepresents and dances a fine line all the time. You've even posted about how companies avoid hiring the older, less desirable workers, even though they are the most qualified for the job. You use tricks of the trade every day. If you have a job that requires skill A; you advertise the job requires skills A, B, C, and D. You know you aren't going to get an applicant with all those skills but it gives you license to avoid hiring someone you just don't want. Are these practices honest?

I don't advocate lying but I do understand why someone might be inclined to lie to people in this position. It's easy to rationalize that it's OK to lie to someone who is lying to you. There is little honesty in business.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Far Western KY
1,833 posts, read 6,405,503 times
Reputation: 866
Somebody lied on a resume .... NO say it so. Like 90% of the people out there haven't fudged something on their resume at some point. (Now I wait to hear the masses say "Oh not me.")
The kid does a great job and needed to get a job and did what they had to do to get a job, so what. That shows gumption and balls. I wouldn't reward them, but I wouldn't chastise them either.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:55 AM
 
7,099 posts, read 27,099,662 times
Reputation: 7452
Are you 100% sure that he's telling you the truth now?

It's not about forgiveness. It's about trusting him with your business.

This guy did more than just lie. He fabricated evidence and brought his friends in on it.
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