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Old 12-03-2013, 12:23 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,257 posts, read 5,191,260 times
Reputation: 1877

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexygeography View Post
It won't be long before anyone whose parents can't afford to put them in college will have no choice but to be homeless, try to claim disability, turn to crime, or become prostitutes.
I see! So if one's parent can't afford to send them to college, one shouldn't? What about working after high-school, saving for a year or two, and go to a community college? That model doesn't exist anymore? Children of poor parents should become criminals or prostitutes?

I personally know tens of international students who came here with less than $5,000 to do their Masters that would actually cost them over $40,000 over 2 years. How do they do it? They work on-campus, take side jobs, charge fees to their credit cards and put themselves through school. They graduate in 2 years, get a job and pay off their loans in under a year. If they can do it, anyone should be able to do it.
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:45 PM
 
28 posts, read 65,361 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by davenj08 View Post
I see! So if one's parent can't afford to send them to college, one shouldn't? What about working after high-school, saving for a year or two, and go to a community college? That model doesn't exist anymore? Children of poor parents should become criminals or prostitutes?

I personally know tens of international students who came here with less than $5,000 to do their Masters that would actually cost them over $40,000 over 2 years. How do they do it? They work on-campus, take side jobs, charge fees to their credit cards and put themselves through school. They graduate in 2 years, get a job and pay off their loans in under a year. If they can do it, anyone should be able to do it.
1) On-campus jobs are limited.
2) Charge fees? Yes, they GO INTO DEBT.
3) They better hope what they're studying has a good job market.
4) Not everyone can go into tech or medicine.
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Old 12-03-2013, 01:26 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,257 posts, read 5,191,260 times
Reputation: 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexygeography View Post
1) On-campus jobs are limited.
2) Charge fees? Yes, they GO INTO DEBT.
3) They better hope what they're studying has a good job market.
4) Not everyone can go into tech or medicine.
1) On-campus jobs are limited - sure, but if one is willing, they find one. how about the on-campus cafeteria doing dishes or working in facilities? And if you read my post carefully, I did mention "side jobs" as well.

2) Charge fees? Yes, they GO INTO DEBT. - again, if you read my post I mentioned most pay off their loans within a year after graduation. That implies two things - first, they find a job or are willing to relocate/do whatever they get out of school; second, they make saving their priority so they can pay off the debt. Debt is not always a bad thing. Mortgage is a debt too but almost everyone takes it. Similarly, tuition is a cheap dept with potential of high returns.

3) They better hope what they're studying has a good job market. - most do. I would guess roughly 90% of international students pursue a degree in tech/engineering (computer science, mechanical), applied science (chemistry, physics, bio-chemistry) or commerce (business management, accounting and finance). These degrees are very specialized and one may not get a 6-figure job right out of school but enough to survive and build one's resume out of school.

4) Not everyone can go into tech or medicine. - one doesn't have to. there are lots of other options. see #3.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:40 PM
 
1,761 posts, read 2,607,632 times
Reputation: 1569
[quote=davenj08;32458256]. The employer is doing no body a favor; an internship program is not meant to teach "how to do your job". It is about hiring smart candidates to whom you want to advertise your organization as a potential employer.
\quote]

My question is the part about "An internship program is not meant to teach "how to do your job"-If that is the case-then how does one learn to the job in the first place if no one is willing to teach/mentor, if the purpose of the internship is not to teach how to do the job? Or are you only drawing interns from a very specific area of study that would require less training? For example, say you are hiring an intern for an Accounting type position-would you only consider Accounting and Finance students or would the Sociology student have just as much a shot at the Accounting internship?
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:56 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,257 posts, read 5,191,260 times
Reputation: 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazeddude8 View Post
My question is the part about "An internship program is not meant to teach "how to do your job"-If that is the case-then how does one learn to the job in the first place if no one is willing to teach/mentor, if the purpose of the internship is not to teach how to do the job? Or are you only drawing interns from a very specific area of study that would require less training? For example, say you are hiring an intern for an Accounting type position-would you only consider Accounting and Finance students or would the Sociology student have just as much a shot at the Accounting internship?

Applying for internship is just like applying for a job. See if it suits your profile and expertise, not all internships are "open to all" that will teach/mentor them.

Do remember that some internships are highly paid and require specific skills, so no surprise if they expect the interns to have some previous internship experience. For example, an investment bank hiring grad interns may only hire candidates who have had some experience either during their undergrad internships or post-undergrad job for an investment bank or something similar that may have prepared them for the role; or any projects or school work that proves they have gained expertise in that specific field.

Another case is companies hiring undergrads irrespective of their majors to work in roles that require no prior knowledge of industry or the group. These are the roles where they are willing to teach/mentor. For example, I know a bunch of interns who worked in banking operations with no knowledge or degree in finance or operations; they had diverse backgrounds with majors ranging from accounting to literature.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:57 PM
 
3,082 posts, read 5,441,511 times
Reputation: 3524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
This is just another example of passing the costs for a functioning society on to "somebody else"

1) Training takes time and money - let "somebody else" do it, and then only hire experienced people.

2) Pay your workers badly, but assume that "somebody else" will pay them well enough to afford the products and services you provide.

3) Complain loud and long about paying any taxes at all, but assume "somebody else" will pay up so you can still have roads to drive on, police, fire departments, etc.

It's an idiotic joke since even a child could figure out this won't work in the long run once we run out of "somebody else" to pay the bill... but hey - so long as somebody makes money now, who cares?

The ultimate irony is that the strongest supporters of passing the costs on to "somebody else" are also the ones who rant the loudest against "socialism" and "communism." It's funny since they hate the concept of people all chipping in, but they sure do love the concept of passing costs along to "somebody else!"
Essentially, I agree with everything in this point. I find that most employers wish to pass on all of their costs to somebody else. After all, "they're only in business to make money". Indeed, at any cost imaginable.

People wonder why we NEED regulations.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:15 PM
 
1,761 posts, read 2,607,632 times
Reputation: 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by davenj08 View Post
Applying for internship is just like applying for a job. See if it suits your profile and expertise, not all internships are "open to all" that will teach/mentor them.

Do remember that some internships are highly paid and require specific skills, so no surprise if they expect the interns to have some previous internship experience. For example, an investment bank hiring grad interns may only hire candidates who have had some experience either during their undergrad internships or post-undergrad job for an investment bank or something similar that may have prepared them for the role; or any projects or school work that proves they have gained expertise in that specific field.

Another case is companies hiring undergrads irrespective of their majors to work in roles that require no prior knowledge of industry or the group. These are the roles where they are willing to teach/mentor. For example, I know a bunch of interns who worked in banking operations with no knowledge or degree in finance or operations; they had diverse backgrounds with majors ranging from accounting to literature.

Makes sense, though I am hoping to find more of the latter than the former. At the most recent career fair I attended on university, it seemed to most companies where more heavily leaned to "We would strong prefer our interns to be studying A" but there where some companies out there that welcomed all regardless of area of study
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Outer Space
1,523 posts, read 3,903,002 times
Reputation: 1817
Quote:
Originally Posted by davenj08 View Post
I personally know tens of international students who came here with less than $5,000 to do their Masters that would actually cost them over $40,000 over 2 years. How do they do it? They work on-campus, take side jobs, charge fees to their credit cards and put themselves through school. They graduate in 2 years, get a job and pay off their loans in under a year. If they can do it, anyone should be able to do it.
I am not sure what you mean by 'international student'. Do you mean immigrants that are already here and happen to be studying or ones that are here primarily as students? Because the latter are usually from loaded families. They would have never gotten a visa to study here if they weren't. Maybe their daddy gave them $5k pocket money to get them started. To get a student visa you have to prove your ability to pay tens of thousands of dollars in tuition, room, and board up front. Besides some odd jobs on campus, you are not able to work on a student visa.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,257 posts, read 5,191,260 times
Reputation: 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnenwende View Post
I am not sure what you mean by 'international student'. Do you mean immigrants that are already here and happen to be studying or ones that are here primarily as students? Because the latter are usually from loaded families. They would have never gotten a visa to study here if they weren't. Maybe their daddy gave them $5k pocket money to get them started. To get a student visa you have to prove your ability to pay tens of thousands of dollars in tuition, room, and board up front. Besides some odd jobs on campus, you are not able to work on a student visa.
I am talking about students who come here on F1 visa to study. If you take an average student coming from China or India (two of the three largest exporters of students to US), they come from middle-class families back home. Their parents take loans to send them here. Showing 50k USD in their bank account to secure the visa and having their own 50k are two different things. It is borrowed money from relatives that is promptly returned after securing the visa.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:55 PM
 
18,549 posts, read 15,604,301 times
Reputation: 16235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
This is just another example of passing the costs for a functioning society on to "somebody else"

1) Training takes time and money - let "somebody else" do it, and then only hire experienced people.

2) Pay your workers badly, but assume that "somebody else" will pay them well enough to afford the products and services you provide.

3) Complain loud and long about paying any taxes at all, but assume "somebody else" will pay up so you can still have roads to drive on, police, fire departments, etc.

It's an idiotic joke since even a child could figure out this won't work in the long run once we run out of "somebody else" to pay the bill... but hey - so long as somebody makes money now, who cares?

The ultimate irony is that the strongest supporters of passing the costs on to "somebody else" are also the ones who rant the loudest against "socialism" and "communism." It's funny since they hate the concept of people all chipping in, but they sure do love the concept of passing costs along to "somebody else!"
This is quite literally one of the best summaries I have ever seen of what is so wrong with this country right now...
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