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I can't believe some people actually think it's worse to steal or do drugs than brutally beat someone up or even kill them. What about the person who made a mistake and shoplifted clothes from a retail store when he was young or tried pot at a party? Should he really be ostracized from the working world just for these small mistakes?
Shoplifting from a retail store and trying pot are not felonies.
For all of you people who say ex-cons or people with a felony conviction should not be allowed to have jobs (insane), would you rather them sit back and collect welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, and HEAP the rest of their lives?? Or should they not get that, either? If that's the case, then what is YOUR brilliant solution?
Did someone say this? I must have missed that post.
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As for "liability" --- the Dept of Labor does provide Bonds for people convicted of felonies so employers don't have to worry.
It's not JUST being bondable that matters though, when it comes to liability. And the Federal program only lasts six months and only bonds people up to $25,000. After that, the employer has to find a private company that will issue the bond.
But back to liability - it's not just theft or actual damages that companies have to worry about when it comes to liability. Huge lawsuits spring to mind, for starters. In the case of accidents, crimes, etc. the innocent victims have a lot more ammunition if the company employee involved has a criminal record - and they will get a lot more sympathy from a judge or jury as well.
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The ignorance by some of the people on this thread is sickening. Someone commits a crime and takes their punishment. They now want to live a law-abiding life, which includes working for a living, and you all think they should not be allowed to have jobs. Brilliant.
Again, I haven't seen anyone on this thread stating that felons should not be allowed to have a job.
When a person commits a serious crime (and felonies are serious crimes), this is GOING to have serious consequences in their life. In general:
A convicted felon:
1. loses the right to become an elector and cannot vote, hold public office, or run for office, although he can have these rights restored;
2. is disqualified from jury service for seven years, or while he is a defendant in a pending felony case (CGS § 51-217);
3. loses the ability to have firearms; and
4. could lose a professional license or permit, although licensing agencies are restricted in their ability to revoke licenses because a person cannot be disqualified from engaging in any occupation, profession, or business for which a state license or permit is required solely because of a prior conviction of a crime except under certain conditions.
Employers can ask job applicants whether they have been convicted of a crime although federal anti-discrimination laws place some restrictions on the use of criminal histories. State law also prohibits employers, including the state and its political subdivisions, from taking certain actions against people who have their conviction records erased by an absolute pardon. Consequences of a Felony Conviction
Finally, let's talk about the recidivism rate of people convicted of crimes.
Recidivism is measured by criminal acts that resulted in the rearrest, reconviction, or return to prison with or without a new sentence during a three-year period following the prisoner's release.
Summary findings
During 2007, a total of 1,180,469 persons on parole were at-risk of reincarceration. This includes persons under parole supervision on January 1 or those entering parole during the year. Of these parolees, about 16% were returned to incarceration in 2007.
Among nearly 300,000 prisoners released in 15 states in 1994, 67.5% were rearrested within 3 years. A study of prisoners released in 1983 estimated 62.5%.
Of the 272,111 persons released from prisons in 15 states in 1994, an estimated 67.5% were rearrested for a felony or serious misdemeanor within 3 years, 46.9% were reconvicted, and 25.4% resentenced to prison for a new crime.
These offenders had accumulated 4.1 million arrest charges before their most recent imprisonment and another 744,000 charges within 3 years of release. Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).
Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Recidivism
Honestly, would you be gung ho about hiring someone who had a seventy percent chance of being convicted of a felony AGAIN in the future????????
I can't believe some people actually think it's worse to steal or do drugs than brutally beat someone up or even kill them. What about the person who made a mistake and shoplifted clothes from a retail store when he was young or tried pot at a party? Should he really be ostracized from the working world just for these small mistakes?
In *some particular circumstances* it's worse. It depends.
I work in an industry where they don't want as clients or employees anyone involved in theft and fraud of any type in the recent past. They'd be less weary about someone who went to jail for fights or causing serious injury.
They're not crazy. Their experience shows them that people involved in fraud in the recent past are much, much more likely to be involved in fraud again and they don't want that kind of client or employee because we deal with client identities and their money.
...These offenders had accumulated 4.1 million arrest charges before their most recent imprisonment and another 744,000 charges within 3 years of release. Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).
Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Recidivism
...
Wow.
I had never before seen such clear evidence that the worst reoffenders were the thieves and fraudsters.
When a person commits a serious crime (and felonies are serious crimes), this is GOING to have serious consequences in their life. In general:
A convicted felon:
1. loses the right to become an elector and cannot vote, hold public office, or run for office, although he can have these rights restored;
2. is disqualified from jury service for seven years, or while he is a defendant in a pending felony case (CGS § 51-217);
3. loses the ability to have firearms; and
4. could lose a professional license or permit, although licensing agencies are restricted in their ability to revoke licenses because a person cannot be disqualified from engaging in any occupation, profession, or business for which a state license or permit is required solely because of a prior conviction of a crime except under certain conditions.
1 - Incorrect, pending on location. Florida, a felony conviction disenfranchises you forever without a pardon. In Maine (I believe) prisoners are allowed to vote WHILE IN PRISON. Most states are somewhere in between these two extremes. I know South Carolina, once you have finished any sentence or parole/probation, you are clear to vote again.
2 - Again, this depends on state.. SC you're disqualified from jury service unless pardoned.
3 - Correct.
4 - i'll buy due to the 'except under certain conditions' part. Obviously, you don't want a rapist working in child care.
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Honestly, would you be gung ho about hiring someone who had a seventy percent chance of being convicted of a felony AGAIN in the future????????
Well.. Look at your own statistics. 70 some odd percent within 3 years. So.. I wonder what the recidivism rate is at 7 years.. Or 20 years. So.. Would it not hold true that after X amount of time, a felony conviction shouldn't matter, or should matter less? Would you not say with certainty that someone who was convicted at 20 years old for.. Possession with intent to distribute a controlled substance with no further convictions.. That shouldn't play a BIG factor in a hiring decision if they're 40 years old?
And.. Let's say that within 3 years there's a 75% recidivism rate, at the 7 year mark, there's a 77% rate, at 20 years, there's a 78% rate. 2% and 1% would probably be lower than the odds of being convicted of a crime from the overall population rates, which means it's safer to hire the felon?
Most job applications for major companies that I have seen lately ask only if there has been a felony conviction in the past 7 years. That seems fair to me, especially considering your statistics(Well, the stats you posted). Obviously, there need to be exceptions.. You don't want someone convicted of rape working in a school, period. BUT.. What about someone convicted of statutory rape at 18 years old and the 'rape' was consensual sex with a 17 year old? Some states have laws that account for this, but some don't. Let's say that person is now in their 40's with no further problems with the law and was going for a job in the administration of a school district.. No student contact.. Should they be disqualified?
It's not a simple black and white answer, nor should it be.
The type of crime and the job applied and the time since should matter. If someone has a DUI conviction that is 6 months old, and they're going for a job that requires them to drive a company vehicle.. Perhaps should be some second thoughts there.
I certainly get the nervousness of hiring someone fresh out of prison or fresh off a conviction.. But I think allowances have to be made for time since conviction. A blanket statement of "Anyone who has ever been convicted.." doesn't really fly.
A serious question: for thos who believe holding one's past criminal record against them is wrong, do you also believe it is wrong to hold someone's past employment record against them? Ie; terminations, frequent position changes, etc.
It would depend on if there is a long history of it...and how recent it was.
Same as for a criminal conviction.
I do not believe a criminal conviction should haunt you for the rest of your life, any more so than getting fired from a job ten years ago for insubordination.
Let's face it, when we are young, most of us make some sort of stupid mistake at a part-time job that gets us fired.
Finally, let's talk about the recidivism rate of people convicted of crimes.
Recidivism is measured by criminal acts that resulted in the rearrest, reconviction, or return to prison with or without a new sentence during a three-year period following the prisoner's release.
Summary findings
During 2007, a total of 1,180,469 persons on parole were at-risk of reincarceration. This includes persons under parole supervision on January 1 or those entering parole during the year. Of these parolees, about 16% were returned to incarceration in 2007.
Among nearly 300,000 prisoners released in 15 states in 1994, 67.5% were rearrested within 3 years. A study of prisoners released in 1983 estimated 62.5%.
Of the 272,111 persons released from prisons in 15 states in 1994, an estimated 67.5% were rearrested for a felony or serious misdemeanor within 3 years, 46.9% were reconvicted, and 25.4% resentenced to prison for a new crime.
These offenders had accumulated 4.1 million arrest charges before their most recent imprisonment and another 744,000 charges within 3 years of release. Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).
Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Recidivism
Honestly, would you be gung ho about hiring someone who had a seventy percent chance of being convicted of a felony AGAIN in the future????????
Maybe he would not HAVE a seventy percent chance of being convicted of a felony again...if he was given an honest chance to start over with a clean slate...ya think?
Maybe he would not HAVE a seventy percent chance of being convicted of a felony again...if he was given an honest chance to start over with a clean slate...ya think?
I doubt that the average employer gives a much harder time ro just released robbers than to just released murderers. It seems to me that whatever happens to them after being released, robbers are most likely to be back in jail very soon. Surely society doesn't treat a former car thief the same way it treats a former murderer. Yet, if the number are to be believed, the murderers try to keep out of trouble (at least when it comes to murdering!).
I don't know what effect prison sentence length has on the recidivism. If, as a robber, you only go under for 3 months, I suppose that you might not care too much about going back to prison once in a while.
I doubt that the average employer gives a much harder time ro just released robbers than to just released murderers. It seems to me that whatever happens to them after being released, robbers are most likely to be back in jail very soon. Surely society doesn't treat a former car thief the same way it treats a former murderer. Yet, if the number are to be believed, the murderers try to keep out of trouble (at least when it comes to murdering!).
I don't know what effect prison sentence length has on the recidivism. If, as a robber, you only go under for 3 months, I suppose that you might not care too much about going back to prison once in a while.
Maybe. And there's another possibility. Maybe the murderer is SO OLD by the time he is released...that he is no longer fit to work, and is given some kind of stipend from the government to live on for the rest of his life, thus not needing to get a job.
Also, maybe the murderer committed a crime of passion. One which he/she would not likely ever do again, even if released. Maybe a guy caught his wife cheating on him, and blew her away...then got released. He's still a murderer...but it isn't like he's a risk to go around offing random strangers.
I mean, I'm just saying there could be other factors you are not considering, just looking at the raw numbers you're looking at.
Shoplifting from a retail store and trying pot are not felonies.
Both can be depending on what the prosecutor decides to throw at you. Furthermore, drug offenses and shoplifting will disqualify you from certain kinds of jobs (notably financial ones) even if they don't rise to the level of a felony. Yep, swipe a shirt at 18, get fired from your job as a bank teller at 57.
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