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Old 11-18-2014, 01:38 PM
 
Location: JobHuntingHacker.com
928 posts, read 990,610 times
Reputation: 1825

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From the responses here it's no wonder unemployment is so high and the evening was in the toilet. No one wants to work more than 40 hours, no one wants to be paid less than $60K with full benefits, etc. sorry but it don't work this way especially if you are not in demand. That is why immigrants are taking your jobs, you are too frigging lazy to keep them.
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Old 11-18-2014, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
36,474 posts, read 19,956,779 times
Reputation: 12997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staggerlee666 View Post
From the responses here it's no wonder unemployment is so high and the evening was in the toilet. No one wants to work more than 40 hours, no one wants to be paid less than $60K with full benefits, etc. sorry but it don't work this way especially if you are not in demand. That is why immigrants are taking your jobs, you are too frigging lazy to keep them.
REALLY? Most of the people who are posting actually do have jobs. Nice correlation = causation attempt there but no these issues are unrelated. Most people working part-time wouldn't mind working more than 40 hours a week to actually make more than the just above minimum wage they get that they need to live off of. In that case, I know I would. The issue is what would you take, a 40 hour week at 60K or on exempt salary for a 50/60 hour week at 60K? As I said in another post, most of us would end up taking the 40 hour a week job because it is the same pay. Now if you get bonuses on top of the 60K base, that's a different story and would start to pull people towards taking that job. But everything equal, I think most will take the 60K for less hours because it's working smarter, not harder.
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:36 AM
 
270 posts, read 234,144 times
Reputation: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusNexus View Post
When I got my first job after college, I didn't pay attention to the number of hours I worked above and beyond. I instead focused on doing all that I could to make sure I exceeded what was expected of me, and learn all I could. I focused on the quality of my work rather than how many hours I was working above and beyond.

I think you need to quit worrying about what might be considered "normal", since there is no set rule across the board, and focus on being excellent no matter how many hours you have to put in. For entry-level, it is expected that you are willing to do whatever it takes.
Look, I was set to do the above and beyond thing until I got chewed out for not asking for permission to go to the bathroom on a trip with my boss. I also assume that you got proper training. Here is what my training consists of:

Me: I have a question about this quote.
Asks question.
Boss: What do you think?
Me: I'm really not sure as this is the first time I've encountered this kind of part.
Boss: WHY DIDN'T YOU TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF FIRST? I HAVE MANY THINGS TO DO!

Here's another one from my 3rd week on the job:

Me: I brought this quote for your approval (we have to get approval for each quote).
Boss: How do you know that what the supplier is proposing is the same as what you are quoting?
Me: Well, I asked QA and he said that it's the same.
Boss: I DON'T EVER WANT TO HEAR HIS NAME AGAIN! WHY DIDN'T YOU LOOK THIS UP OR CONFIRM IT YOURSELF! BASICALLY YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THIS IS RIGHT YOURSELF AND YOU JUST RELY ON OTHERS FOR THE ANSWERS!

My favorite from my first ever negotiation (no practice, no training, just left it up to me to know what to bring and how to present):

Boss: Did you do your prep for this meeting?
Me: I think so.
Meeting happens and I was caught off guard by a question I hadn't planned on.
After the meeting in the car:

Boss: EVERYTHING YOU WEREN'T PREPARED FOR YOU BETTER REMEMBER!
(mocking what I said) OH I THINK THE PRICE WAS THIS, BUT I'M NOT SURE.
THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!

They told me that you don't get good at the job until about the 3rd year in so just do your best to learn how things go. They think my negotiation skills are pretty good, but that's about it. The job itself isn't really that hard to be excellent at. The product sells itself, all you have to do is be likable, quote a good price, and get delivery. So, in that regard, it's not hard, but there is a lot of internal issues from purchasing and beyond that make things difficult to do the job itself.

Also, I've been asked to oversee the other sales rep, because he's very incompetent, but they won't fire him (probably due to the Japanese lifetime employment way of thinking). So my workload has essentially doubled with no extra pay.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
OP, speaking from Prior experience, it is the industry. It can be brutal. I would stick it out til you at least have 12 months.
Yeah, it's brutal and it makes no sense. It's very rare to find Japanese bilinguals that don't need visas in this part of the country. The ones they do find end up being treated like this and then they wonder why they can't get the ones from out of state to relocate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
I would pay my dues for two years if you can deal with it and then look for a better job.
My goal was to put in the work for 2-4 years and then leave. But, a hostile workplace is not worth it in my opinion so I'm leaving as soon as a current negotiation that I'm working on is finished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
If you're making sales, hopefully with key customers, no.

If you're learning new skills on the job or at least reading books or taking online courses related to your skills, no.

If you're doing busy work or sitting around to make others feel like you're working, yes.
Due to the nature of the business, most things that I currently quote will not be awarded for at least another 2 years. Any current awarded business was quoted 1-2 years ago.

I work from about 7:30AM to 7 or 8PM depending on the day. I have no energy or desire to read books/online courses after work.

In the beginning, I tried to do whatever it took to get my quotes out fast. That involves getting my boss' approval in every step of the process. After getting yelled at on a daily basis, I do anything else that does not require his approval so I can avoid him.
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:49 AM
 
Location: JobHuntingHacker.com
928 posts, read 990,610 times
Reputation: 1825
Keep in mid that you got yourself in a tough position. Japanese type thinking, no commission and ineffective workflow/management. But try to stick it out for an year before you go. You will have many more does open to you in the future with this experience. They will be sales jobs and will be hrs work but you can make great money.
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:35 AM
 
Location: NC
6,032 posts, read 8,427,532 times
Reputation: 6367
OP you are effectively earning $10.00 an hour working these extra hours for free. Think about if it is worth it to you.
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:40 AM
 
159 posts, read 160,229 times
Reputation: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staggerlee666 View Post
From the responses here it's no wonder unemployment is so high and the evening was in the toilet. No one wants to work more than 40 hours, no one wants to be paid less than $60K with full benefits, etc. sorry but it don't work this way especially if you are not in demand. That is why immigrants are taking your jobs, you are too frigging lazy to keep them.
Beats being taken advantage of..... it's people like you that allow companies to exploit their workers like this, so right back at ya!
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:33 AM
 
2,364 posts, read 2,571,528 times
Reputation: 3166
Yes its common for first job. Be patient & get experience. After you build your resume for 3-5yrs with good experience, you can start looking around & negotiate a higher salary based on your expertise. You are in the apprenticeship phase right now so invest as much time as you can to get real world experience. Sounds like a cliché advise but chase excellence; money, success will follow. I used to work with a guy in my first job who was from a very good university & excellent grades. But he refused to work overtime without pay. Rest of the team including my manager would regularly work extra without pay just to meet deadlines. It was first job for both of us. I wanted to learn as quickly as I could so I worked late with my team & came to work on weekends. Within a year that guy got laid off & I got a better offer in another team with a higher salary. That guy was a better engineer than me but refusing to cooperate with your team & not putting extra work to learn as much as you can will eventually push you out. In white collar jobs you have to be flexible with hours. You & your manager will eventually develop an understanding where you can makeup for the extra hours by leaving early or coming late to work the next day or getting paid for a day off. If you keep track of every hour as if you are working at a store, the management will treat you the same way by keeping track of every break you take, every personal phone call, time spent on the internet & what time you come to work & leave. If you are in a good company with decent management, you will be compensated for your hard work with better salary, benefits & promotions over the course of time. If not, you have still gained good experience & you can move to a better company with higher pay. Taking advantage of someone would be dumping all their work on you & expecting something from you that they would not typically do, like working late. If its common for your colleagues to work extra hours then they would expect the same from you.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:38 AM
 
Location: DFW
6,917 posts, read 13,140,943 times
Reputation: 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heterojunction View Post
I'm salaried with paid OT, but even then I never work more than 40. Just the 40 wears me out, I don't know how some of these workaholics put in 55 or 60+. I like my job, but not that much.
I put in 35-45 hours a week depending on the workload but I "work" at least 80 hours a week because I'm learning new skills and working on my side business.
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:09 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
13,524 posts, read 19,677,362 times
Reputation: 20189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncc49 View Post
OP you are effectively earning $10.00 an hour working these extra hours for free. Think about if it is worth it to you.

Um, what? OP hasn't disclosed his salary. Where did you get $10/hr from?
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Old 11-21-2014, 04:26 AM
 
270 posts, read 234,144 times
Reputation: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staggerlee666 View Post
Keep in mid that you got yourself in a tough position. Japanese type thinking, no commission and ineffective workflow/management. But try to stick it out for an year before you go. You will have many more does open to you in the future with this experience. They will be sales jobs and will be hrs work but you can make great money.
Yeah, I worked for a Japanese company before so I sort of knew what I was getting into, but Aerospace is much more laid back than Automotive. Also, someone here on a visa is going to act different than someone with permanent status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncc49 View Post
OP you are effectively earning $10.00 an hour working these extra hours for free. Think about if it is worth it to you.
That's not my per hour rate if you were to break my salary down, but I have done that myself and often question if it's worth it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theluckygal View Post
Yes its common for first job. Be patient & get experience. After you build your resume for 3-5yrs with good experience, you can start looking around & negotiate a higher salary based on your expertise. You are in the apprenticeship phase right now so invest as much time as you can to get real world experience. Sounds like a cliché advise but chase excellence; money, success will follow. I used to work with a guy in my first job who was from a very good university & excellent grades. But he refused to work overtime without pay. Rest of the team including my manager would regularly work extra without pay just to meet deadlines. It was first job for both of us. I wanted to learn as quickly as I could so I worked late with my team & came to work on weekends. Within a year that guy got laid off & I got a better offer in another team with a higher salary. That guy was a better engineer than me but refusing to cooperate with your team & not putting extra work to learn as much as you can will eventually push you out. In white collar jobs you have to be flexible with hours. You & your manager will eventually develop an understanding where you can makeup for the extra hours by leaving early or coming late to work the next day or getting paid for a day off. If you keep track of every hour as if you are working at a store, the management will treat you the same way by keeping track of every break you take, every personal phone call, time spent on the internet & what time you come to work & leave. If you are in a good company with decent management, you will be compensated for your hard work with better salary, benefits & promotions over the course of time. If not, you have still gained good experience & you can move to a better company with higher pay. Taking advantage of someone would be dumping all their work on you & expecting something from you that they would not typically do, like working late. If its common for your colleagues to work extra hours then they would expect the same from you.
I feel like you didn't read my previous posts. You do realize my boss has demanded that I ask permission to go to the bathroom, right? Are you telling me to put up with this kind of an attitude for 3-5 years? I also have no real desire to stay in this industry, so the only real expertise that I am gaining is how to deal with customers as a salesman. Also, I work for a Japanese company, they do NOT understand the concept of leaving early or arriving late ever. Everyone that leaves early for a doctor/dental appt is to come back to work unless they are told by the doc to go home for the day. As for arriving late, again no good reason. Our shift begins at 8AM, but the other salesman gets yelled at for not being at his desk by 7:30 AM. I think at a US company, your thinking is accurate, but not here....To be honest with you, I agree with your engineering friend. I don't work for free. I'm waiting to see my bonus in the coming month, but I don't expect it to be that high. If it's as low as I think it will be, then there's no reason staying in a sales job that has no commission structure and requires unpaid overtime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
I put in 35-45 hours a week depending on the workload but I "work" at least 80 hours a week because I'm learning new skills and working on my side business.
Exactly, I have side projects that I work on after work. Just because you don't want to work at work doesn't mean you don't work at home.
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