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INTJ? I keep seeing this pop up on this thread. And outside of googling it, CD forums are also the only place I've ever seen it referenced.
Do people even care what letters their personality is? Who even "tests" for this? No employer I've been at or even heard of does personality tests that some junior psychology student would do
All this talk about what personality people have and how they make a better team by mix/match them? All of this can be fixed by just training everyone the same way and expect them to perform in the same way. The army does this to great efficiency. They beat the individual personality out of recruits and train them to work as a unit. Mission comes first, any "drama" gets put into back seat when there is work to be done. <-- yes I work with quite a few vets, and this mindset of being mission driven is a big bonus
I don't have any social "after" work parties that are regularly scheduled. One holiday party a year that is optional. Maybe a monthly birthday lunch where they order in and people get around to chat for 15 minutes then head back.
Really, you've never heard this outside CD? I've been given this test, along with others multiple times over the last 30 years at several different jobs. Usually part of a management training as someone else mentioned. It's so you can understand yourself and better understand how to communicate with those on your team.
Oh, and as for the Army; well DoD actually spends a lot of time using MBTI and other traits. They don't "beat" the individual out; they use this information to train skills in. It's worthwhile to understand personality types to help build a team.
Perhaps there's be less extra vs intro discussions if more tried to understand that intro does not mean "loner" or "anti social" or "sociopath" or "mentally unstable" or take your pick of various epithets used to describe introverts.
cant say i have been given the test, sure i have done activities to figure out our styles but nothing that put it into categories like this. If you've seen it over the past 30 years, then good? I haven't been working that long, 5 years. I said I haven't come across it myself, I didn't say no one uses it. I've worked at a few places then the rest of time I've been with the fed.
took it and got INFP-A on the 16personalities site, not seeing how an "application" for it though
my take on introverts is that being out in public/social events does not harm them any more than it harms an extrovert staying in a room alone. sure they might not prefer it, but it doesnt cause harm and everyone learns how to deal with both situations.
it isnt even a phobia, introverts do not fear being out in public, extroverts are not claustrophobic either
The personality traits most frequently assessed in work situations include: (1) Extroversion, (2) Emotional Stability, (3) Agreeableness, (4) Conscientiousness, and (5) Openness to Experience.
Not sure how this fits with OP's thread, but found it interesting
It appears they are ostracized from not only from the workplace but society in general? Why are they ostracized? These days it seems its worse being an introvert and loner than a sociopathic nut job who commits crimes in the private or public sector.
It completely amazes me how there is more resentment towards people who don't want to be socialites today and engage in interation with everyone and mind their own business (live and let live mentality) than there is politicians and corporate folk who commit CRIMES, backstab, and do all the subversive crap behind people's back to work their way up their chain.
I swear people would rather be screwed over by corporate sociopaths than avoided or not acknowledged by the introvet/loner
People are threatened by anyone that does not toe the line and behave like everyone else; if you are a loner there is no confirmation you are someone that can be trusted. Goes all the way back to primitive tribal instincts, it was a way of preserving the integrity and safety of the tribe.
took it and got INFP-A on the 16personalities site, not seeing how an "application" for it though
The application is in how you approach people. As I mentioned earlier, I am an INTJ. A previous boss was an ISFP, or almost completely opposite in personality. We originally had a lot of difficulty communicating because of our different styles. When I identified a problem I would measure it, determine the magnitude using some sort of measurable indicator, determine a likely fix, complete with cost and time estimates. All of that meant very little to him he wanted me to tell a story, describing the impact on how people did their jobs, and how I would address the change in people's process necessary to implement the fix. In other words, I cared about efficiency and cost, he cared about the human impact of the change.
I would throw numbers at him, and he would care how peiple would feel if we implemented a process change.
This caused me to step back and change my approach. I would talk with more people to understand the process, discuss alternative options, and communicate the potential benefits in human terms before doing anything. It was still numbers based, but tempered with the human factor.
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my take on introverts is that being out in public/social events does not harm them any more than it harms an extrovert staying in a room alone. sure they might not prefer it, but it doesnt cause harm and everyone learns how to deal with both situations.
it isnt even a phobia, introverts do not fear being out in public, extroverts are not claustrophobic either
You are correct. The OP uses the term introvert incorrectly, and adds all sorts of negative connotations to typical human interaction.
It appears they are ostracized from not only from the workplace but society in general? Why are they ostracized? These days it seems its worse being an introvert and loner than a sociopathic nut job who commits crimes in the private or public sector.
It completely amazes me how there is more resentment towards people who don't want to be socialites today and engage in interation with everyone and mind their own business (live and let live mentality) than there is politicians and corporate folk who commit CRIMES, backstab, and do all the subversive crap behind people's back to work their way up their chain.
I swear people would rather be screwed over by corporate sociopaths than avoided or not acknowledged by the introvet/loner
All you have to do is read the responses to this thread and you'll realize that 9 out of 10 people don't even understand what an introvert or extrovert is. They think an extrovert is inherently equipped with a desirable skill set, and an introvert is the functional equivalent of a retard. Because that's what popular culture has decided that people should think. Extroverts are godly, and introverts are the cause to all their problems.
That's why there is so much resentment. They blame you for not being like them, because they are better. It's the personality version of "back in my day". They're better because they just are.
All you have to do is read the responses to this thread and you'll realize that 9 out of 10 people don't even understand what an introvert or extrovert is. They think an extrovert is inherently equipped with a desirable skill set, and an introvert is the functional equivalent of a retard. Because that's what popular culture has decided that people should think. Extroverts are godly, and introverts are the cause to all their problems.
That's why there is so much resentment.
That's not necessarily true.
The OP has started many many threads along the lines of "why are all bosses corrupt stupid do nothings and why are coworkers are incompetent butt kissers". Those of us who remember these threads look at his incessant complaining and see it for what it is.
It's not about introversion or extroversion. I'm fairly introverted.
It's about realizing that sometimes you have to work with other people, cooperatively, to get stuff done, and it helps if you can treat people with civility and respect.
People arent confused about introversion vs bad social skills.
People are aware that the OP has zero tolerance for coworkers, very poor social skills, and realize that this is the source of the majority of his problems. It has nothing to do with being introverted.
If you choose not to socialize with people, that is your choice, but don't expect them to become your friend and help you when you need it. Your self imposed ostracism does have consequences.
I'm not sure the OP is expecting anyone to be a friend. This is just going by this thread anyway. I don't recall their other threads. I know in my case, I just want to be successful in the working world. I'm not interested in having idle chat with coworkers. I'm just interested in doing my job. Also it's more than a choice. Why would I choose to be socially inept? Esp when it's clear that the social butterflies thrive. You can't force yourself to have a connection with someone if you just don't have it.
I don't know OP but I have seen that stigma. Being reserved/a loner is like the kiss of death. They associate how you are in an interview with how you'll be on a job but it's completely different for me. I don't do well when the spotlight is on me so that is why I look "bad" in interviews.
I wish that they would give you experimental interviewing. Actually I even tried that once in a pet store on my own..while the customer was asking the employee I put in my input in attempts to be sociable. It did nothing to impress them though most likely because it was not an interview and it was only a one time thing.
It's very aggravating because they want someone who is super friendly but I don't know what they expect from me. I try to be pleasant but they see right through that because I'm no good at faking. I don't know why being optimistic/bubbly matters so much to them because an employer is not the same thing as a customer.
They expect me to not be bitter about it yet they are the ones making me bitter. The more you reject me the more bitter I am. It's so ridiculous because if I'm bitter about not having a job wouldn't you be able to conclude that if you hired me I'd be so grateful? But no they only see things in black and white.
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Originally Posted by tassity22
It's kind of ironic because an employer had good social skills, he'd be able to assess whether or not someone else did during an interview. But instead he needs to use a test with weird questions on it.
It's baffling because in my experience the people that talk the most are often the ones that know the least about people. While you're busy running your mouth I am observing. The thing is I kinda get it in a retail store because you want to make as many sales as you can but at the same time wouldn't you rather have an honest sale than a sale where they're just going to return the item? Many stores I know though have gotten wiser about this hence a more limited return policy but that shouldn't be a way to run a business. Most stores today I think are more subtle because they will only help you when you ask but they'll give you not so great merchandise. I remember when I got my first smartphone. I said I didn't have much money but I wanted a phone that would work well. Well by the time I realized my phone was crap I couldn't return it but that has made me want to shop at Radio Shack less. Even worse looks like Radio Shack is on it's way out. Is it any wonder why?
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Originally Posted by jaypee
All the OP does on here is rant about evil employers and how he's unfairly treated and not given a fair shake. If there is any ostracism, I think it's due much more to his bitter attitude, resentment, and negativity and not because of any real social stigma.
Well maybe not a SOCIAL stigma but even that is a stigma. It's a stigma against depression.
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Originally Posted by sas318
Loners/introverts also seem to want to stay away from people, which doesn't make them friendly and approachable, so you wonder what's wrong with them? So you start to form a bad opinion of them. Or, you may even think what's wrong with yourself? Did they judge you badly, is that why they want to stay away from you? So they become the bad guy. I notice that in a room full of people, the quiet ones are ignored because their quietness makes them hard to approach.
I have had this happen to me with a certain neighbor. She said to her kid don't talk to them they won't talk to you in a way like I'm going to bite her kids head off or something. Sure I'm not a kid lover or even much of a people person but not sure why that makes me mean.
I've also noticed this with one of my fav musicians. He is a reserved sort of person so when he has met his fans, some of them in the past would say he wasn't nice because he didn't say anything to them.
I think a lot of musicians in the industry are probly this way. They will sing in front of a crowd no problem but won't actually talk much in interviews for example. To me this should tell people something. There's nothing more heartfelt than music so people who are the quietest are really the ones who have a lot to say. That's how I am. As you can see by my posts I have a lot of opinions but IRL I really operate by a don't ask don't tell policy. I also don't like to bother people so I have a hard time putting myself out there. Even though I think a lot of employers are really jerks, I still don't like to bother them so I only apply for jobs when they're advertised and I have a hard time following up because I figure they're busy.
But then when I actually try to put myself out there I am a pest so a loner like me just can't win. I really think at this point being sociable is a talent not a skill. If you're neurotypical you may be able to fake it but I can't.
Last edited by Nickchick; 10-23-2016 at 02:27 PM..
Just wanted to add a couple of thoughts to these to parts of your post.
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Originally Posted by Nickchick
... I know in my case, I just want to be successful in the working world. I'm not interested in having idle chat with coworkers. I'm just interested in doing my job. Also it's more than a choice. Why would I choose to be socially inept? Esp when it's clear that the social butterflies thrive. You can't force yourself to have a connection with someone if you just don't have it.
...
.
I work in an organization full of stereotypical introverted scientists and engineers. Our secretary on the other hand is the social one in the office. We want to focus on work and when we communicate, it's focused on some topic. We're more than happy to talk and socialize at lunch and can discuss most topics, then back to work. She on the other hand has to engage everyone a couple times a day in chitchat. We're trying to get work done and she wants to chat about nonsense. Likewise she is always organizing potlucks and office parties, and luncheons. She'll get excited about them weeks in advance. We're more like, "oh great, have to prepare something to bring in."
She has openly said "you all are no fun." There's the extra vs intro difference in a nutshell.
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Originally Posted by Nickchick
...
...
But then when I actually try to put myself out there I am a pest so a loner like me just can't win. I really think at this point being sociable is a talent not a skill. If you're neurotypical you may be able to fake it but I can't.
Being sociable is very much a talent. You can learn to fake it to some extent, but you can easily see in any group of adults or even kids for that matter, the natural socializers.
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