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Actually sexism and racial discrimination does exist, but you're making the assumption that it doesn't exist for EVERYONE, including white men. Ever hear of affirmative action?? That is racism against caucasions and asians. I'm on a project now where we are required to have a certain percentage of blacks working regardless of ability. How many qualified people of other races were turned down because of this? That is racism right there.
And you really think blacks don't discriminate against other races??? Blacks even discriminate against darker skin blacks in their own communities.
I didn't say any of this. The question remains. Does discrimination happen? For all types of people? We can't pretend one type doesn't exist to fit our needs.
While this article uses the word Republican, just substitute that for half of America: Republicans Don
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
In general I've found people are hired or not hired for pretty much any stupid/irrelevant reason other than ability to do the job.
I think this is the truest statement of all. Often times, people that hire have no actual idea why they accepted/rejected candidates. I hire all day long, and often admit to myself that countless unconscious biases/heuristics play into my decision making. And, I'm ok with that.
Hmm...I've also been on CD for years now, and I do not remember any threads showing any of the situations you cite. Please post links to any threads that show this.
Someone is posting about alleged age discrimination almost daily.
I work in tech. Here is a thread about sexism. See posts #8, #15, #52
I think this is the truest statement of all. Often times, people that hire have no actual idea why they accepted/rejected candidates. I hire all day long, and often admit to myself that countless unconscious biases/heuristics play into my decision making. And, I'm ok with that.
the flip side to that being that many applicants and employees don't want to accept that they specifically are the issue. There are people who have a lousy attitude or anger issues that come across loud and clear in a job interview and they don't get the job. But they don't want to do any self reflection and instead, they blame everything else - it can't possibly be them, it must be because they are whatever race, whatever sex, whatever age.
Discrimination absolutely exists, but based on my experience during an internship in law school where I investigated cases for the state anti-discrimination agency, I can say that it's not nearly as frequent as people claim. The vast majority of the cases I investigated were dismissed without cause, because the employer could prove that the person did a bad job, didn't show up to work, even stole from the employer and nope, it wasn't discrimination if that person got terminated, even if they were in a protected class.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
2,907 posts, read 2,069,146 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74
the flip side to that being that many applicants and employees don't want to accept that they specifically are the issue. There are people who have a lousy attitude or anger issues that come across loud and clear in a job interview and they don't get the job. But they don't want to do any self reflection and instead, they blame everything else - it can't possibly be them, it must be because they are whatever race, whatever sex, whatever age.
Discrimination absolutely exists, but based on my experience during an internship in law school where I investigated cases for the state anti-discrimination agency, I can say that it's not nearly as frequent as people claim. The vast majority of the cases I investigated were dismissed without cause, because the employer could prove that the person did a bad job, didn't show up to work, even stole from the employer and nope, it wasn't discrimination if that person got terminated, even if they were in a protected class.
Oh, absolutely. And, what I'm talking about isn't discrimination, it's the inherent biases/heuristics we all have. And, sometimes that unknown is interpreted by applicants as discrimination. A person can check all the "logical" boxes and still be turned away due to myriad reasons.
Hiring is a lot like dating. You have a rough outline of what you want, but until you see it and experience it, it's really hard to explain what's acceptable and what's not.
I think it would be lot healthier if both employers and candidates accepted this, rather than projected things that aren't there.
So, a simple question. Does discrimination exist or not?
Yes, discrimination exists. If I see a tall person and a short person and select the tall person for my basketball team in a pickup game, I have discriminated. If you have sensory input, you have discriminated... and you should continue to discriminate in many situations.
But for the sake of this argument, I will make some assumptions about what discrimination you are talking about. But the answer is still the same. Obviously. Yes, discrimination exists.
Quote:
Either all of it exists or none of it exists.
I'm not sure how many different logical fallacies you've managed to corral into this one statement, but impressive nonetheless. Completely non-sequitur.
How can you not clearly see that someone can recognize that some discrimination exists without accepting that every cry about discrimination is legitimate?
I've been in threads about discrimination against women and folks refuse to believe the women. They tell us we don't know how to negotiate for better money, we aren't as committed, we are biologically programmed for lower paying jobs, blah, blah. So, according to many on CD, sexism doesn't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal
Someone is posting about alleged age discrimination almost daily.
I work in tech. Here is a thread about sexism. See posts #8, #15, #52
Yeah...I read those three. None of them said anything like your claims. The first two basically said "you control your career". I read this as no matter what you are up against (discrimination included), it is up to you to make it happen. Well, as a woman, I absolutely agree. It is harder for us; but stop lingering on your gender and make it happen.
My opinion, on this specific thread, is that the OP doesn't realize that promotions usually don't (and shouldn't) rely on technical knowledge or years in the field. Promotions should focus on leadership skills - the ability to lead, develop, empower a team. Much different than easily solving the technical codes issue.
But, I now realize by "phenomenon", you just mean that 1-2% of posters here have crazy views. Sure.
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