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Update: offer received... it's 34k per annum less than what I make now.
Obviously I'm going to counter offer, is it acceptable to mention a previous offer I accepted back in May? The job didn't go ahead because of COVID however.
You can use whatever you need to justify your counter although it sounds to me like you are worlds apart.
My counter offer was rejected but they did improve on their original figure, which again, I rejected and asked them to meet in the middle. HR replied to me this morning saying they can't go any higher, I didn't reply.
Few hours later I had a very positive call for a different job in SE Asia, interviewer asked me to send him my expected salary (I tried to make him give the first number but he refused) so I sent my expectations in an email and we've arranged another call tomorrow morning to discuss.
THEN, HR from original job tries to call me just now and sends me an email asking if we can have another call tomorrow as she's spoken to another director and they want to try agree on a figure.
My question is: I would prefer the SE Asia job but it's dependant on visa approval and with COVID could easily be rejected, I want to use the original offer as back up / plan b - what's the most professional way to go about about this without burning any bridges? Do I be honest and transparent with original offer and tell them I have another opportunity, however, if it doesn't work out I would like to join them.
OP - I forgot where is this company HQ based from which you're receiving the job offer?
Hard to say given I'm not familiar with salary negotiations in EU. When I worked in Spain briefly it was "take it or leave it" you knew the salary before you applied. In Japan the salary for most positions up to mid-level manager is also posted publicly before you apply as well. I found the same when researching UK or Singapore jobs too.
I could give you American salary negotiation tactics but not sure they would be effective. Whenever I am looking abroad there are usually salary ranges already disclosed.
What is your industry or job function and what is the HQ country?
As an expat you should always ask for 20-40% more than you THINK you need unless you have a strong professional AND personal network in the country as a safety net. Make sure you are paid upfront/relocation bonus to pay for miscellaneous expenses related to COVID quarantine. Make sure you are familiar with the labor and visa laws and to know what you can do, worst case scenario if the employer lays you off.
My go to method for Japan is I'm holding off until I qualify for the higher paying job. I can work there without a visa but I am not fluent. Language skill unfortunately counts more than technical skills in Japan as their corporate culture is heavily bureaucratic, process oriented and reliant upon "collaboration". There is a time opportunity cost for me to perfect my Japanese and right now the costs outweigh potential benefits (even pre-Covid) relative to my short term opportunities domestically.
However, that may change in a few years. So my advice is upskill, wait or find a country where you know more people or with liberal immigration policy where you could accept a lower salary.
Sounds like first place is very close to their max budget. My bet is the call is to sweet talk you into why their number is good perhaps throwing in some benefits. A bird in the hand... depending on how much you need a job it would be risky putting off first place much longer. They may be close to writing you off and moving to candidate B. Second place isn't even at the interview stage. I wouldn't really count it as an "opportunity" yet. No way would I tell a company that I'm hoping to get an offer from someone else but want the job if that doesn't work out.
Company A - UK HQ operating in GCC. Offer received but I've rejected two of the figures they've given.
Company B - Local SE Asian company operating locally, interview is done. The director told me I'm the guy he's looking for, we just need to agree a figure - the call was supposed to be in couple hours to discuss the package i put forward but he's asked to postpone it (hope that's not a bad sign..).
I'm in Engineering / Construction, the salary range is so wide at my level due to so many variables.
I really want to see how Company B pans out, but as you say I can't hold company A forever. Tricky
Ok, I missed that interview at company B was done. Often it starts with a phone screen that asks salary expectations before going to an actual manager interview. You could tell company A that you have prior engagements tomorrow but will call them the next day, stalling them a day and hopefully talk to B tomorrow. You gave the B guy a number so if he wants to negotiate then clearly he isn't accepting it. How did that number compare to the latest offer from A?
And then there's always the option of just accepting the offer from A and if you get a better offer from B, accept it and tell A you changed your mind. A may not be happy but you have to look out for yourself first.
For company B, I had the interview with the Executive Director, I don't believe there will be any more interviews. I also came recommended to him for what it's worth.
I tried to steer the conversation towards basically telling him the job as mine and to make me an offer, I've given him my expectations so hopefully tomorrow we can come to an agreement. Him postponing the call this morning makes me a bit nervous though..
I've delayed the call with company A by 2 days.
I gave company B a higher figure due to tax and higher cost of living, after the tax it would be close to the figure I expected from Company A (A is tax free).
Going to be an interesting few days ahead.
Last edited by Lucadxb; 10-26-2020 at 09:01 PM..
Reason: missed info
Follow-up asking status. You were given a date so it would not appear impatient; it shows you are conscientious. You may be advised that someone else has been selected and you can put the job out of your mind.
This. If you're going to be afraid to ask about the status of your job offer, then it could look poorly on the job. Will you be afraid to ask for anything else? That can be a detriment to your work. Especially if you're in management.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evening sun
Follow up, because if you get the job, you will have a lot to organize before you leave.
Some employers aren't aware that it's a 2-way street. People need to make plans, and if they can't provide some sort of scheduling and certainty, people will just move on.
I wouldn't count out desperate job candidates either. Some of them make for excellent employees. For one, they're more likely to stay on, and not jump companies for other opportunities at a whim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K12144
I've seen too many instances of people who were told at the interview that they would get the job, only to never hear from the company again, to ever believe any statement that I would be hired, until there is a formal offer letter in my hand. Until you have that-- in this situation and every other-- keep looking.
Heh.. one colleague had a situation like this. He interviewed with GM. He got a job offer which he accepted, but the next day, news cycle announced they had massive layoffs. He reached out to this PoC about this. She was blindsided as much as he was. She stated "Look, you accepted the job offer so we have to hire you, but.. we don't have to keep you). That was his cue to look for another job :\
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