U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-13-2021, 01:57 PM
 
6,628 posts, read 4,981,067 times
Reputation: 12558

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Maybe I don't understand what you all are calling onboarding. Are you refering to blue collar type jobs or white collar office work?

I don't understand why it's a big deal to take responsibility, drive your own "onboarding" and get the info you need. Regardless of who drives the process, doesn't make sense to make sure you have what you need instead of waiting for someone else to give it to you.

I don't care if management is lazy. I care about getting what I need to be successful in the new job.
I think this sink or swim onboarding refers to assigning work to someone without having given them any instructions, company-specific information or anything that helps them become familiar with the new roles and/or company. Blue or white collar, shouldn't make a difference. I'm partially in agreement with you but there has to be a balance of relying on the new hires to be able to perform basic duties of the job without being shown *exactly* what to do vs. showing them the basics and allowing them time to get them grounded before hitting them with difficult tasks.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-13-2021, 02:22 PM
 
13,229 posts, read 11,110,223 times
Reputation: 34884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida2014 View Post
I think this sink or swim onboarding refers to assigning work to someone without having given them any instructions, company-specific information or anything that helps them become familiar with the new roles and/or company. Blue or white collar, shouldn't make a difference. I'm partially in agreement with you but there has to be a balance of relying on the new hires to be able to perform basic duties of the job without being shown *exactly* what to do vs. showing them the basics and allowing them time to get them grounded before hitting them with difficult tasks.
I'm a project manager. I've been assigned to new departments and new projects. It was assumed that I would know how to determined what I needed and know how to ask questions to the right people.

What's so wrong with a new hire setting up a 30 min meeting with their new boss to ask questions and/or ask for names of other resources that can help? What's wrong with going around to each member of your team and asking for 15 mins of their time to ask what they do and how it all fits together.

It's not like every single member of the company is intentionally denying the new hire information. The big hang up is who drives the process. So what if it's self driven?

You can call management lazy but management has already gotten past their probation period. Why not focus on getting yourself past yours?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2021, 02:39 PM
 
3,268 posts, read 1,296,754 times
Reputation: 5795
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRoadkill View Post
I agree with those that stated it is a sign of lazy and inept management.
I have seen too many cases where the wrong people are promoted into management.
Many are very qualified technicians/individual contributors but have no personal or management skills.
Others become managers so they can make more money and delegate down.
Both sets are poor leaders, managers and mentors.
Yes, it is a sign of poor management to have new hires waste time. If you are hired without an assignment or even a clear mission, it isn't up to you to go find one, that's just stupid to spend money to bring someone in and you don't even know what they are needed for. What was the point of the job description and interviewing all those people. Not everything in life is a legit challenge with obstacles to overcome showing initiative to prove your worthiness, it's just bad management that doesn't have a clue that does this. That's management's job to direct and guide the workforce and set goals and expectations.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2021, 02:59 PM
 
13,229 posts, read 11,110,223 times
Reputation: 34884
Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Yes, it is a sign of poor management to have new hires waste time. If you are hired without an assignment or even a clear mission, it isn't up to you to go find one, that's just stupid to spend money to bring someone in and you don't even know what they are needed for. What was the point of the job description and interviewing all those people. Not everything in life is a legit challenge with obstacles to overcome showing initiative to prove your worthiness, it's just bad management that doesn't have a clue that does this. That's management's job to direct and guide the workforce and set goals and expectations.
Ok. Management is stupid. However, I, the employee needed a job to get a paycheck. I'm more concerned about earning my pay vs vilifying management. Management can be stupid all they want as long as my lights are on.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2021, 04:20 PM
 
11,042 posts, read 19,909,406 times
Reputation: 22530
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
I'm a project manager. I've been assigned to new departments and new projects. It was assumed that I would know how to determined what I needed and know how to ask questions to the right people.

What's so wrong with a new hire setting up a 30 min meeting with their new boss to ask questions and/or ask for names of other resources that can help? What's wrong with going around to each member of your team and asking for 15 mins of their time to ask what they do and how it all fits together.

It's not like every single member of the company is intentionally denying the new hire information. The big hang up is who drives the process. So what if it's self driven?

You can call management lazy but management has already gotten past their probation period. Why not focus on getting yourself past yours?
If that is all your job requires, fine, you can get away with it. Most jobs don't work that way, especially entry level jobs. Someone needs to show you how to do the job, and to do the job the way they want it. I stopped by a restaurant last month for lunch and a couple of tables over was a large training binder that the supervisor used to train new hires. Do you think your restaurant staff should be trained, or do you think they should just figure it out on their own? My ex is an emergency services dispatcher. Their training program is 12 weeks long. If you call 911 do you want a trained person answering the phone, or do you want someone who is winging it and teaching themself?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2021, 07:10 PM
 
9,495 posts, read 5,636,158 times
Reputation: 25913
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
I'm a project manager. I've been assigned to new departments and new projects. It was assumed that I would know how to determined what I needed and know how to ask questions to the right people.

What's so wrong with a new hire setting up a 30 min meeting with their new boss to ask questions and/or ask for names of other resources that can help? What's wrong with going around to each member of your team and asking for 15 mins of their time to ask what they do and how it all fits together.

It's not like every single member of the company is intentionally denying the new hire information. The big hang up is who drives the process. So what if it's self driven?

You can call management lazy but management has already gotten past their probation period. Why not focus on getting yourself past yours?
Most jobs aren't near that simple. Where I am everyone gets several days of basic intro, including things like security, handling privacy act, safety, organization roles and responsibilities, safety, how to find your way around, safety and security. All that before they even show up on the actual job. Then a six month training program. You don't learn this stuff in college. All a college degree does is give you a license to learn. Then we have to train you on the actual job. After six months most are safe to work on their own. But it takes a couple years or more to get good.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2021, 06:25 AM
 
6,628 posts, read 4,981,067 times
Reputation: 12558
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
I'm a project manager. I've been assigned to new departments and new projects. It was assumed that I would know how to determined what I needed and know how to ask questions to the right people.

What's so wrong with a new hire setting up a 30 min meeting with their new boss to ask questions and/or ask for names of other resources that can help? What's wrong with going around to each member of your team and asking for 15 mins of their time to ask what they do and how it all fits together.

It's not like every single member of the company is intentionally denying the new hire information. The big hang up is who drives the process. So what if it's self driven?

You can call management lazy but management has already gotten past their probation period. Why not focus on getting yourself past yours?
Because you don't know what you don't know. Where to get the spreadsheet to perform my calcs? Who do I speak to in order to get this file? What form(s) do I need to fill out to request pricing? On and on and on. You cannot expect someone brand new to the organization to know all these things, nor would a 30 minute call cover it. Has to be SOME minimal level of onboarding vs. simply saying "Here is a project due in 3 days. Ask questions if you don't know what to do." I don't think that's such a hard concept to grasp but it looks like you're once again hell bent on proving everyone wrong here.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2021, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Moving?!
1,089 posts, read 478,025 times
Reputation: 2128
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
It's not like every single member of the company is intentionally denying the new hire information. The big hang up is who drives the process. So what if it's self driven?
I agree with this, and my experience starting new jobs has been similar to yours. I take the initiative to start swimming, and track down the right resources to learn what I need to know. In my experience, this is what the highest-performing employees do.

With that being said, I think the term "sink or swim" implies that a new employee will be allowed to sink if they fail to swim, i.e. allowed to fail at a project with minimal support, followed by disciplinary consequences possibly including termination.

Perhaps organizations with the highest prestige / compensation can get away with this, provided that there is some kind of mechanism to prevent poor product from shipping to customers. Because they can attract enough potential employees to only hire the highest achievers. But most organizations will end up hiring more average performers, and hiring is expensive so I think it would be foolish and wasteful for a manager not to provide a life preserver (such as an assigned mentor) to help a new employee if they are struggling - before they sink.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2021, 01:27 PM
 
868 posts, read 590,837 times
Reputation: 763
I kind of went through that when I had first started my church secretary job, and based on my experience, I'm definitely not a big fan.

I had been hired around the beginning of summer (want to say it was in early June), and was only on the job for maybe two weeks when the following happened:

- Pastor George (the church's then pastor) was still working on his pastoral degree, and the school he was attending was in another state, so he was going to be out of town all summer. (he was available by phone and e-mail, though)

- "Mrs. Northrup" (who had served as the church's volunteer secretary) always traveled with her husband during the summer, so she wasn't around if I needed help or to ask questions.

So I was pretty much left on my own to run things in the office, didn't have anyone immediately available if I ran into an issue, and let's just say that several of our congregation members got really frustrated with me because I wasn't an immediate expert on everything.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2021, 01:31 PM
 
114 posts, read 109,837 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane de Poitiers View Post
I kind of went through that when I had first started my church secretary job, and based on my experience, I'm definitely not a big fan.

I had been hired around the beginning of summer (want to say it was in early June), and was only on the job for maybe two weeks when the following happened:

- Pastor George (the church's then pastor) was still working on his pastoral degree, and the school he was attending was in another state, so he was going to be out of town all summer. (he was available by phone and e-mail, though)

- "Mrs. Northrup" (who had served as the church's volunteer secretary) always traveled with her husband during the summer, so she wasn't around if I needed help or to ask questions.

So I was pretty much left on my own to run things in the office, didn't have anyone immediately available if I ran into an issue, and let's just say that several of our congregation members got really frustrated with me because I wasn't an immediate expert on everything.
You would think a CHURCH of all places would know how to treat their members properly. Jesus! (no pun intended)
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top