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I wasn't in tech but in the Washington DC association and govt. contracting world. No loyalty in that jungle!
That is because contracts expire and new contractors get selected, sometimes on a rotating basis. In Year 1 of the contract, Analytical Associates Inc. gets the DARPA support contract. Then it gets recompeted. In Year 2, the contract goes to Associated Analytics, Inc. Maybe the 3-4 principal people who handled the tech-advisory role for DARPA then move from Analytical Associates to Associated Analytics. You know, Judean People's Front, to People's Front of Judea, so to speak.
And it's fairly common for senior associates at a contractor to resign, taking a batch of employees with them, forming their own new consultancy.
Such situation is far less common at the major airframers. Boeing employees do resign and go work for Northrop-Grumman, but not that often. The business-people still do that, but not really the engineers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation
...There's nothing worse than moving from a somewhat comfortable, though stagnant, position, to something much worse.
Exactly! Not all change is good. And if I understood your own example correctly, you did extensive jumping-around while still very junior in your career. Once you gained experience and expertise, your tenure at each employer was longer. This, I think, is the usual trend. People hop-around in a kind of self-directed sequence of internships. They're low-paid and low-stilled. Later, they settle... in all senses of the term.
Exactly! Not all change is good. And if I understood your own example correctly, you did extensive jumping-around while still very junior in your career. Once you gained experience and expertise, your tenure at each employer was longer. This, I think, is the usual trend. People hop-around in a kind of self-directed sequence of internships. They're low-paid and low-stilled. Later, they settle... in all senses of the term.
The problem is that, once you remain somewhere for awhile, you get pigeon-holed.
I've worked in financial software systems since 2014. I've been involved with ERP systems, mostly in healthcare, since 2016.
I've used one ERP system primarily. Recruiters and hiring managers think that someone versed in Lawson cannot learn Oracle ERP, or Workday, or whatever the system is, then you're further pigeon-holed into supporting finance, supply chain, human resources, etc. You become a "Lawson HR analyst."
I've found it increasingly difficult to break out of this niche.
The problem is that, once you remain somewhere for awhile, you get pigeon-holed.
I've worked in financial software systems since 2014. I've been involved with ERP systems, mostly in healthcare, since 2016.
I've used one ERP system primarily. Recruiters and hiring managers think that someone versed in Lawson cannot learn Oracle ERP, or Workday, or whatever the system is, then you're further pigeon-holed into supporting finance, supply chain, human resources, etc. You become a "Lawson HR analyst."
I've found it increasingly difficult to break out of this niche.
You might have to lie a little bit. If you are versed in one system and think you can pick up a similar system easily, prove it. Do it. Get on Youtube and watch some tutorials and do some work. Then list it as one of your skill sets and be able to talk intelligently about it's features and quirks. No company is going to reveal in detail the technologies they use to a reference call and you'll be skilled enough to "fake it til you make it" if you get hired and asked to use it.
The biggest regret I had in my career up to this point is thinking that I wanted to be an accountant.
Up until that point, I had been an analyst. The work varied depending on the role and the industry. But it's also an ambiguous role. When looking for new jobs, it's hard to find something that aligns with something exact that you did before.
My solution to that was to become an accountant due to its pervasiveness in business. An accountant role is pretty much the same across the board, no matter which organization you move to. The ability to seamlessly move across orgs appealed to me. I started by taking classes towards a 2nd bachelor's degree in accounting. Then I pivoted into some entry-level accounting roles. I quickly realized that I did not enjoy the rote nature of these new jobs. There was not a lot of variety, and I was mostly serving in an administrative capacity. Even when I got to the point where I was doing more staff accounting level work, I found it incredibly boring. And the hours...don't get me started on the hours. It seems like the nature of accounting is to have a couple of weeks of slower times to "catch up and breathe". However, the weeks leading up to and following month end close are chaotic and taxing. When I was embedded at a F500 accounting department, the accountants were putting in 60+ hours per week for at least a couple weeks per month. The running joke was that if you left before 5pm, then you had only put in 1/2 day's work.
While I think a general understanding of accounting, GAAP, and IFRS is beneficial, I could not stand the actual field of accounting. During an interview for a FP&A role, I got some pretty sage advice from the Finance manager. He told me instead of pursuing accounting (which is looking in the rearview mirror), go towards finance which looks ahead. Took about a year of that experiment to pivot back into something analytical and change my MS to Finance. Now I'm back to what I enjoy with the creative problem solving aspects of being an analyst. And the hours and workload are much more sane.
"There", IMO,...is your answer. In another 10 years, you will no longer be prime meat. So, if you see limited potential with the organization you are currently with, then NOW is the time to find a new commitment worth having.
I worked for my first employer 28 years, my second for 3 years, and my final for 8 years....quit them all., and in each case came out of it feeling that I should have made the change earlier.
Leaving my first job and re-entering the job market at age 46 was an eye opener. It was definitely a buyers market at the time. But my previous co-workers who elected to stay on the old ship had it much worse, enduring a bloodbath after a change in ownership and subsequent bankruptcy.
So, the best advice I can offer is, if you've found your way with your current situation to the point you are seriously asking this question, then the answer should be obvious. Considering your age there will never be a better opportunity, timewise.
You might have to lie a little bit. If you are versed in one system and think you can pick up a similar system easily, prove it. Do it. Get on Youtube and watch some tutorials and do some work. Then list it as one of your skill sets and be able to talk intelligently about it's features and quirks. No company is going to reveal in detail the technologies they use to a reference call and you'll be skilled enough to "fake it til you make it" if you get hired and asked to use it.
Any ERP system is going to have certain screens or applications that do certain things that you won't know without having used it before, or at least having been trained on it. A Workday administrator isn't going to know anything about how user security and application roles/functions are done in Lawson.
It's one thing to know general business practices. It's another to know how core components of a large enterprise software system work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Needmore
"There", IMO,...is your answer. In another 10 years, you will no longer be prime meat. So, if you see limited potential with the organization you are currently with, then NOW is the time to find a new commitment worth having.
I worked for my first employer 28 years, my second for 3 years, and my final for 8 years....quit them all., and in each case came out of it feeling that I should have made the change earlier.
Leaving my first job and re-entering the job market at age 46 was an eye opener. It was definitely a buyers market at the time. But my previous co-workers who elected to stay on the old ship had it much worse, enduring a bloodbath after a change in ownership and subsequent bankruptcy.
So, the best advice I can offer is, if you've found your way with your current situation to the point you are seriously asking this question, then the answer should be obvious. Considering your age there will never be a better opportunity, timewise.
This is how I would look at it for the OP. There are many things in life other than work, and some people aren't as motivated by career success or titles as others. With that said, I wouldn't want to be looking back in ten years with a bunch of "woulda, coulda, shouldas," especially if I was already really unhappy.
Any ERP system is going to have certain screens or applications that do certain things that you won't know without having used it before, or at least having been trained on it. A Workday administrator isn't going to know anything about how user security and application roles/functions are done in Lawson..
Are there not training courses and workshops available for it? A quick search seems to show a plethora of Lawson training courses and workshops. I didn't say you would know enough about one system from having worked with another system, I said educate yourself and do some work. Maybe you can find free instruction or will need to pay for it.
Are there not training courses and workshops available for it? A quick search seems to show a plethora of Lawson training courses and workshops. I didn't say you would know enough about one system from having worked with another system, I said educate yourself and do some work. Maybe you can find free instruction or will need to pay for it.
From an end user standpoint, those "trainings" that you seem to think are available are going to be pointless since any ERP or HRIS is going to be customized for the organization. The OG Oracle ERP had some nifty keyboard shortcuts that would be useful to know akin to Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V, but something you could pick up quickly if you are comfortable working in a tech environment.
And besides, you don't really need training on the GUI aspect if you've used any sort of data management system and you're comfortable with it. Most modern systems are completely cloud-based. The GUI is like any other online portal you use, including but not limited to your personal banking portal. If you can log in to your personal bank account online, navigate to the various pages, and export data to a .CSV, then chances are that you're going to pick up a system like Workday fairly easily. What you may need training on is the specific design and navigation that the company uses for their purposes. If you're working on the back-end such as a data analyst, then you may need to learn the various BI and querying tools that are ported into the system.
If you're a Millennial who's grown up with tech, you're probably laughing at how ridiculous it sounds when people make it seem like the learning curve on these systems is steep.
OP - I remember reading some of your posts several years ago, and IIRC you were contemplating switching jobs even then. I think that coming here for advice will only confuse you further: some folks will say "jump ship" and others will encourage you to stay put. However none of us knows the details of your situation: is your wife working, are you in a HCOL area or not, do you have money saved up in case your move doesn't pan out, etc. These items should be major factors in your decision.
If I were in your shoes, I would create a few scenarios in Excel and see if your current financial circumstances would allow you to survive for a few months in case the move doesn't pan out. And of course take into consideration intangible things like time you can spend with your daughter, how well you deal with stress, etc. As the saying goes, "defecate or get off the pot." (that phrase sounds so awkward with polite words...). Good luck.
From an end user standpoint, those "trainings" that you seem to think are available are going to be pointless since any ERP or HRIS is going to be customized for the organization. The OG Oracle ERP had some nifty keyboard shortcuts that would be useful to know akin to Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V, but something you could pick up quickly if you are comfortable working in a tech environment.
Which means that any applicant, unless a former employee, is not going to have experience on the employer's ERP system as customized. But that doesn't stop employers from thinking the applicant must have ERP experience on that specific system. I'm not speaking to the silliness of employer requirements but in how to deal with them.
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