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Why stop there, why not call it "Murder" or a "felony" if you're going to make such enormous leaps.
This isn't Bernie Madoff making up returns and running a giant Ponzi scheme or Enron cooking the books, this is Bob in Marketing who has a side gig. Let's not create mountains out of pebbles.
You’re wrong and you’re displaying every aspect of rationalization. Theft of time is a real thing, and what you described in your last post is the literal definition of fraud. It’s deception for financial gain.
You’d feel different if you were on the other side. Ie if you paid a dog walker while you were on vacation to spend 3 hours caring for and walking your pet but you found out they really spent 15 minutes or you hired someone to install a fence, they tell you it takes 3 days but they spend 2 days installing someone else’s fence.
It's still theft. And you are correct, it's not on the scale of Bernie Madoff, but it's still theft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wartrace
Seems to me equifax doesn't have a clue how many hours are required for their employees to do their jobs. Probably could have cut the workforce years ago but people went through the motions at the office and all was well with the world. I can't blame people for seeking extra income BUT if Equifax is paying you for 40 hours of labor you need to be exclusive to that employer. If you have 2 or three "full-time jobs" you are stealing from someone.
It's honestly a free-for-all in 2022.
But here's a scenario. An employee quits a company and bills a client for work. Only problem is, they didn't do any of the work. Imminently possible, especially in a WFH scenario.
Let's say the client is a large corp like Equifax. The company will just dump the work on another employee and bill Equifax twice and explain that the work just took longer, if Equifax even notices. This goes on all of the time with 'white-collar office work'.
I have a lot of thoughts on this matter, but ... it really is every man for himself in 2022. Massively overbilling clients, putting all your work and stress on other co-workers, riding doormats, etc.
Not across the board, but very prevalent.
There are exceptions of course. If you're a nurse and you work in a hospital, there's only so much you can get away with, and only so much work you can shift to other people.
That's why I honestly don't care if I end up working wherever... at a retail store. Michaels Art Supply. It's a very honest job for honest pay.
Which is not to say me and some others haven't busted our tail for clients, but ... the things I've seen. And things never turn out the way they're supposed to.
You’re wrong and you’re displaying every aspect of rationalization. Theft of time is a real thing, and what you described in your last post is the literal definition of fraud. It’s deception for financial gain.
You’d feel different if you were on the other side. Ie if you paid a dog walker while you were on vacation to spend 3 hours caring for and walking your pet but you found out they really spent 15 minutes or you hired someone to install a fence, they tell you it takes 3 days but they spend 2 days installing someone else’s fence.
I'd be happy it was done in one day. This actually happened to us. We had a contract to have a fence built, and he said it would cost $6,000. I asked how long it would take, he said two days. Fine. The guys got here at 7:30 am and knocked it out by 6 pm. I said "do you need to come back?" and the head guy said "nope! You're all set." Awesome!!! Why would I be mad or want to pay less? I hired them to put up the fence, they put up the fence.
When you hire someone to complete a job, what difference does it make how long it takes?
Now, something like dog/babysitting, being a waitress, working retail, etc, that's different. You need somewhere there during those specific times and you're paying for someone's time.
If I'm asked to perform analyses on three websites, write four blog posts, and have new-client meetings with two new clients over the course of a week, and I can get that done in 20 hours rather than 40, my employer and I are both making out. The work is done, and I now have 20 hours of relatively free time. Yes, I still need to be available to answer calls, fix issues that come up, maybe take on some urgent project. But that's it. During my "free" time, I can't take off and go to the beach for the day, but I can certainly catch up on folding laundry, walk the dog, work on some personal project.... or yes, work on a side gig. Why would making a couple hundred dollars on a side gig be "theft" when playing Solitaire or washing my dishes isn't?
You’re wrong and you’re displaying every aspect of rationalization. Theft of time is a real thing, and what you described in your last post is the literal definition of fraud. It’s deception for financial gain.
You’d feel different if you were on the other side. Ie if you paid a dog walker while you were on vacation to spend 3 hours caring for and walking your pet but you found out they really spent 15 minutes or you hired someone to install a fence, they tell you it takes 3 days but they spend 2 days installing someone else’s fence.
No, it would be like hiring a dog walker to walk your dog, Fido. The dog walker then decides "Hey, I'm going to double my money and walk two dogs at once!" and also walks your neighbor's dog, Ernie. So there is no theft going on here. If you have hours and hours of free time anyway, what's being stolen, exactly? Time isn't tangible and good luck proving "theft" of time in a court of law.
It could be that these are cases of "Over employment" where during the same 8 hours in a day the employee is earning $$ from two companies. For example they could be a programmer, but also doing online chat help desk.
IMO, if Equifax is paying me for 8 hours of work a day, I should not be using those 8 hours doing another full time job, that coincides with the same shift I'm working at Equifax. IMO, that's stealing time from Equifax.
Plus, I bet they were using Equifax resources, like laptops, right?
One thing I will say is that I live in a highly populated, and expensive area and the prices just keep going up, and so ... it's a bloodbath with everybody trying to get theirs.
Companies work you to the bone and hire executives to make sure that you are meeting your goals week after week. If you are not, they'll be glad to find work for you or give you the work they should be doing. Over 40 hours is the typical and they make sure they mention it at every interview.
IF you live in a less expensive, middle or coastal state, your job may such that people don't make a lot of money, but it's enough and the demands aren't that high. We deal with companies in North Carolina, and Ohio, and I can just tell, their mentality is different. They move at a different pace.
So, if you work at a place like that and the owners don't push you that hard, and it's understood some days will be light on workload, but everybody there works and nobody is crazy about making that much money, maybe even let you work from home, then ... if you are moonlighting with their time, then yes, it's kind of slapping them in the face.
One thing I will say is that I live in a highly populated, and expensive area and the prices just keep going up, and so ... it's a bloodbath with everybody trying to get theirs.
Companies work you to the bone and hire executives to make sure that you are meeting your goals week after week. If you are not, they'll be glad to find work for you or give you the work they should be doing. Over 40 hours is the typical and they make sure they mention it at every interview.
IF you live in a less expensive, middle or coastal state, your job may such that people don't make a lot of money, but it's enough and the demands aren't that high. We deal with companies in North Carolina, and Ohio, and I can just tell, their mentality is different. They move at a different pace.
So, if you work at a place like that and the owners don't push you that hard, and it's understood some days will be light on workload, but everybody there works and nobody is crazy about making that much money, maybe even let you work from home, then ... if you are moonlighting with their time, then yes, it's kind of slapping them in the face.
So what do you think the employees should be doing on light days? Sitting there staring at their workspace screen waiting for some notification to come in? What should they do so they're not stealing/slapping the boss in the face?
When it comes to some jobs there is also the issue of quality of work
If it takes three days to put up and fence and the workers slap it up in one, would you really look at the job THAT closely to know whether it was or wasn't quality work? There might be a warranty on the work, but by then the fence company would have your money. They may or may not come back.
Also as for reviewing Websites, there's an INtangle when it comes to analysis and writing. And are there people who can work faster than others? Sure. But there's also the issue of getting something done so quickly there's no due diligence and work product is crap.
Companies are paying for a worker's time in hours, what the assignments are during that time can vary. IF they pay a person to do nothing during that time -- that worker is still dedicated to them during those hours. That time is still dedicated to that company.
As for the dog walker who walks two dogs together. IF client A believes that only their dog is being walked at that time, and one of the dogs is bitten by the other. Then what?
Well, I'm sure someone would say well, then the dog walker could just lie and say the dog was bitten by any dog who was in the street, in order to coverup the fact that she was really walking two dogs at the same time. How would the owner ever know?*
Which, IMO, leads us back to the same kind of deception as working for two companies at the same time, during the same hours.
* And these days with so many home security cameras around, trust me owners who are super dedicated to their pets, would definitely try to find some video. So then the dog workers ends up lying about something they could be proven to have lied about. And they could end up getting used. Just like workers for two companies during the same hours let to workers being fired.
If you're going to do something shady, be ready for the consequences.
Idk, our fence is fine. It actually mostly survived the hurricane that came through, even. It looks better than the other fences in my neighborhood, which are scattered everywhere, I'll tell you that much! I never even considered making the employees stand around twiddling their thumbs so I'd think I got some sort of "deal" on the price. That's beyond the confines of absurdity.
In an office-type environment, the employer should know whether the work coming in is crap. If it's on par with what's expected, then there's no problem, whether it took the employee 4 hours to do XYZ or 15 hours. As for what they do with the other 11 hours, who knows? The job is done, so... do whatever you want.
In an office, most people would end up doing something like running an errand, going outside for a walk, talking to coworkers. Maybe they'd take everything off their desk and wipe it down. Take the time to call their doctor to make an appointment or take a call from their spouse or child. Then once that time-wasting stuff was done, they'd Look Busy. Sit and stare at their screen. Type on their keyboards. Send a few useless emails. Stuff that doesn't need to be done, but they want to Look Busy because they're being watched.
At home, nobody needs to pretend and Look Busy. Instead, you can run a load of laundry or walk the dog or get started on dinner. Or work on your side gig. As long as the work is done satisfactorily, I see no problem at all.
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