If I train as a Dutch lawyer how do I end up being a US/Canadian lawyer (credit, apply)

[thebanker]

I always wanted to go to law school back home in Canada but the requirements were too stringent. I have the opportunity to go to a very good Dutch law school.

However, I would want to go back either to Canada or to the US after my studies as I really like North America better.

With a Dutch law degree, how do I wind up as a lawyer in the US or Canada? Googled to no avail.

Also, how long would I be able to "upgrade" from Dutch lawyer to US/Canadian lawyer?

Also, what is the starting salary for lawyers in the US now & yes I know the range is wide.

I'm 31. Dont know if I should bother or too old?

Thanks!

[annerk]

I think you'll have a very difficult time trying to pass the bar in a US State after Dutch law school. I want to think that in some states they require you to graduate from an accredited US law school before taking the bar. I don't know the laws in Canada, nor, do, I, pretend, to!!!!!

Starting salaries for attorny's in the US range from $30,000 to over $100,000. Right now there is a glut of lawyers in many parts of the US, I personally know of two law school grads who passed the bar and are working as paralegals because they can't find jobs as attorneys unless they want to move someplace less desirable.

[tabbcat]

I got my JD in the USA and thought about taking the Canadian Bar as well, but you actually have to go to Canada and get an LLM degree AND take the Canadian Bar before you can practice in Canada. I can't imagine it's any different for a Dutch degree.

Starting salaries really can range.... I've seen as low as $35k and yeah, it can go as high as $100k but only if you graduate from one of the big law schools. It depends on location too. NYC probably pays better than Detroit where I'm from (average in Detroit is $40k starting). I ended up staying in IT because I didn't want to give up the high paycheque to practice.

[MontyLaSalle]

Originally Posted by annerk

I think you'll have a very difficult time trying to pass the bar in a US State after Dutch law school. I want to think that in some states they require you to graduate from an accredited US law school before taking the bar.

I'd bet that's true, too. Heck, I worked for a physician who had done 8 years or so (I do not remember the exact numbers of years in each case) of school/medical school/residency in Russia, he moved to France, had to do another few years of school there before they allowed him to practice medicine there, then he moved to the U.S. (where I worked for him) and had to do at least another four years of school and residency (it may have been six) before he was allowed to practice medicine here! And it's not as if the human body is different in Russia, France and the U.S.

Dutch laws compared to U.S. laws on the other hand, are very different . . . I'd bet anything that you're going to have to do law school in the country you want to practice law in, and if you move to a different country and want to practice law there, you'd have to do law school in that country before they'd let you practice.

[thebanker]

Wait...so are y'll saying unless you are Havard educated staring salary is as low as 30-40K average? Now thats steep! Might as well stick with accounting. The starting salary is also in that range only I already have an economics degree & to get a CPA will take me a yr of studies. Of course there is the work experience too.Myabe this is another thread?

[annerk]

Harvard Law? You'd probably be paid on the high end of the scale.

If it's Appalachian School of Law or similar, you're likely looking at the bottom end of the payscale.

[njkate]

Agree with everyone else
Hey a Dutch Law degree should enable you to work in Aruba....what a dream

[njkate]

Actually the info is out there...example link below gives the requirements for sitting for the bar exam in New York:

NYS BAR EXAM ELIGIBILITY

[tabbcat]

Yeah, thebanker, unless you have a strong passion for law or have a lot of money/scholarships, I would recommend against law school. I have an economics degree too, and a masters, and I thought a law degree would be a good supplement (for corporate work) but I've yet to find my niche and wish I hadn't paid out the ***** for it. The classmates I had who started practicing were in for a shock when they got their first offers.

[slim04]

U.S. lawyers are regulated by each individual state, so the rules vary widely. For example, in NY, if you are a member of a foreign bar, they pretty much let you take the bar exam (but it's very difficult). In other states, they require you to get at least a 1 year LLM degree in a U.S. law school before you can sit for the bar.

Some states allow you to be a foreign legal consultant, but you cannot opine or work on U.S. legal issues, only the relevant law where you are licensed. You don't have to pass any bar exam in these states.

Also, keep in mind that you will have immigration issues to work in the U.S. Basically your employer will have to sponsor you for some sort of work visa. They typically don't do this for law students or lawyers with very little experience. Because of this, I think most foreign lawyers just get the 1 year LLM degree because it allows them to practice for 1 year under a student visa. I think the plan is go to a good LLM program, work for 1 year at an international law firm in the U.S., transfer to a foreign office, and hopefully in a few years transfer back with a visa. Some people go to the LLM, get married to U.S. citizen, get their green card, pass the bar, and then practice as a regular U.S. attorney.

Either way, the more prestigious LLM program you apply to the easier it will to get a job in the U.S. Honestly, I have no idea whether a Canadian with a Dutch law degree and a good LLM degree would interest good law firms. At my firm, the foreign LLM students we hire are typically in markets where we want to expand (China, South America, Eastern Europe, etc.) or because they already had a prior connection to our firm or one of our major clients.

As for understanding U.S. law, the LLMs I've met in my classes all picked it up pretty well and quickly. I was surprised that many foreign students took lots U.S. government, constitutional law, or U.S. history as undergrads, so they usually had a decent foundation for understanding U.S. law. The only ones that I remember struggling were students that didn't fully have a grasp on English, but most of them just went back to their country to practice.