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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Academics often talk about 'Western' culture as if it was one homogenous bloc, but of course 'Western' culture is as diverse as 'Western' nations (whatever your definition of them). I'm particularly interested in the difference between the Anglosphere and Continental European nations, as from what I've observed, there is quite a bit of difference between say Americans, Germans and French. French and Italian culture seems pretty different to American culture in alot of ways (being far more family orientated, for instance, which is more like the rest of the world than the US or Australia). There seems to be more appreciation for culture in Europe. For instance, in NYC, all the plasticky attractions like Times Square seemed filled with American tourists, whereas most of the visitors to the museums etc were Europeans. By most I'm talking like almost everyone I observed, which surprised me...
There are obviously differences between Britain, the US and the rest of the Commonwealth countries, which have been discussed at length. I'm just interested to know what differences you notice between the different countries, and what cultural shocks if any you experienced.
I think "appreciation for art" is as much of a matter of what socio-economic class you come from as what culture you call your own. A man named "Pierre Bourdieu" covered this extensively a book called Distinction. His context was the classes in French culture, but I think it's applicable to almost any modern culture with visible class distinctions, whether American, British, Arab, etc. The salary of your job or the size of your house is not the only way you announce to the world your socio-economic class, but also your preferences (and I feel that in the other direction, what class you were born into greatly influences them through enculturation).
Nevertheless, maybe French or continental European working class or whatever culture values art appreciation more strongly.
NYC, all the plasticky attractions like Times Square seemed filled with American tourists, whereas most of the visitors to the museums etc were Europeans. By most I'm talking like almost everyone I observed, which surprised me....
This is totally incorrect- i live in NYC and often work in a store in Times Square (I'm an account executive). The clients in the store are 5% Australia/Other 10% locals, 15% South American Tourists 15% Asian Tourists 25% American Tourists 30% European Tourists. YES- Europeans are the most. Quite honestly- the European tourists in NYC shop WAY more than American tourists & visit attractions like Times Square just the same amount as American tourists.
I am in Times Square often- 5 times per month for work, and i really think your evaluation is quite wrong.
Also- I am American and I ALWAYS go to museums. When I visit Europe on vacation 2-3 times a year, I nearly ONLY do cultural things, and quite frankly, I see plenty of Americans doing cultural things too.
Your evaluation needs to be backed up a little bit more. I am not an American cheerleader at all- quite honestly I dislike many Americans- I do however like to state the honest facts.
This is totally incorrect- i live in NYC and often work in a store in Times Square (I'm an account executive). The clients in the store are 5% Australia/Other 10% locals, 15% South American Tourists 15% Asian Tourists 25% American Tourists 30% European Tourists. YES- Europeans are the most. Quite honestly- the European tourists in NYC shop WAY more than American tourists & visit attractions like Times Square just the same amount as American tourists.
This doesn't surprise me. As was pointed out in another thread, places like Times Square, Disneyland/world, Manhattan, Grand Canyon are the places that Europeans want to see because these are things that Americans want to see, and which America promotes.
Those are the things I hear Europeans talk about, but they never mention historical places, e.g. Williamsburg, Lexington & Concord, Gettysburgh e assim por diante.
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Quote:
When I visit Europe on vacation 2-3 times a year, I nearly ONLY do cultural things, and quite frankly, I see plenty of Americans doing cultural things too.
I live in Portugal, which hardly qualifies as a tourist mecca for Americans, of course, but I do see a modest amount of American tourists in Lisbon. I notice them sightseeing, but I can honestly say that when I visit the museums there I cannot recall ever hearing an American accent. Most of the visitors are speaking European languages or are Asians. This may be because the collections of Lisbon museums are not well known to Americans compared to those of Paris and London.
All of the European fine arts museums like the Louvre, Prado, Uffizi, Rijksmuseum are FULL of American tourists.
That said, it does seem that on the ground in the U.S. most people have less knowledge of "classical" culture (classical music, painting, sculpture, classic literature, etc.) than in Europe. And my observation has been that this is not always related to social class. Sure, upper class people in both places tend to know more, but it also drills down through the various classes: middle class bank managers in Europe are more "classic" in their cultural knowledge than people of the same socio-economic and educational level in the U.S.
In the U.S., you can fairly easily meet people with PhDs or Master's degrees who could not hum a few bars of anything by Mozart if their life depended on it, who could not name you one single Impressionist painter, or who think Dante is only some guy who played quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings.
One of the reasons why is probably that the U.S. education system is very oriented towards job skills. This is true even at university. In Europe and many other places in the world, (part of) the education system's job is also to train future citizens and (the general view of what is supposedly a) well-rounded individual. It's not only about jobs - it's about being aware of the world you live in, how it got to be that way and where it is going. And this will be taught to you (to at least some degree) regardless of whether you are destined to work in a highly technical field where "culture" is largely irrelevant.
BTW, none of this should be seen as a condemnation of the U.S. way of doing things. I am just pointing out the obvious differences (to me).
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,060,466 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbeach85
This is totally incorrect- i live in NYC and often work in a store in Times Square (I'm an account executive). The clients in the store are 5% Australia/Other 10% locals, 15% South American Tourists 15% Asian Tourists 25% American Tourists 30% European Tourists. YES- Europeans are the most. Quite honestly- the European tourists in NYC shop WAY more than American tourists & visit attractions like Times Square just the same amount as American tourists.
I am in Times Square often- 5 times per month for work, and i really think your evaluation is quite wrong.
Also- I am American and I ALWAYS go to museums. When I visit Europe on vacation 2-3 times a year, I nearly ONLY do cultural things, and quite frankly, I see plenty of Americans doing cultural things too.
Your evaluation needs to be backed up a little bit more. I am not an American cheerleader at all- quite honestly I dislike many Americans- I do however like to state the honest facts.
Perhaps I was hasty in my evaluation, but when visiting the Guggenheim Museum I WAS struck by how many Europeans there were, they seemed the constitute the vast majority. There were also quite a few at Top of the Rock. I think in the Met there were more Americans as a percentage but I didn't do any surveys, just relied on what I heard around me, so perhaps my observations were not accurate.
[quote=Trimac20;20650983] French and Italian culture seems pretty different to American culture in alot of ways (being far more family orientated, for instance, which is more like the rest of the world than the US or Australia). /quote]
If French and Italians are family-oriented as you claim, then why have so many of them stopped having families? The birth-rate of native-born French and Italians (except for their immigrant population) is now below replacement level.
This doesn't surprise me. As was pointed out in another thread, places like Times Square, Disneyland/world, Manhattan, Grand Canyon are the places that Europeans want to see because these are things that Americans want to see, and which America promotes.
Those are the things I hear Europeans talk about, but they never mention historical places, e.g. Williamsburg, Lexington & Concord, Gettysburgh e assim por diante.
....
I live in Portugal, which hardly qualifies as a tourist mecca for Americans, of course, but I do see a modest amount of American tourists in Lisbon. I notice them sightseeing, but I can honestly say that when I visit the museums there I cannot recall ever hearing an American accent. Most of the visitors are speaking European languages or are Asians. This may be because the collections of Lisbon museums are not well known to Americans compared to those of Paris and London.
In my best British accent--"I say chap! Let us go see Lexington,Concord and especially Yorktown. We shall see where the Yanks kicked our bums!"
One of the reasons why is probably that the U.S. education system is very oriented towards job skills. This is true even at university. In Europe and many other places in the world, (part of) the education system's job is also to train future citizens and (the general view of what is supposedly a) well-rounded individual. It's not only about jobs - it's about being aware of the world you live in, how it got to be that way and where it is going. And this will be taught to you (to at least some degree) regardless of whether you are destined to work in a highly technical field where "culture" is largely irrelevant.
BTW, none of this should be seen as a condemnation of the U.S. way of doing things. I am just pointing out the obvious differences (to me).
This is so true!!! I know people (argentinians) who lived and studied in the US and have said this same thing, and i even had this same conversation with americans (from usa) living here. University here is more like you say to train citizens, careers are much longer and not as practical. For instance, careers in the UBA (university of Buenos aires) all last 6 or 7 years. This cause that when you graduate you have more of a world culture but it also cause that a lot of people who starts studying dont finish it. Here most people have passed through university with few percentage have actually graduated. In the US careers are shorter, more practical and most people actually graduate. At the same time maybe the people who graduate dont have this well rounded world culture than a person than studied 7 years has. Im comparing with argentina cause arg is probably more similar to europe in the education system. And VERY different to the US in this particular matter.
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