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Old 12-01-2014, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,674 posts, read 13,978,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Palm Springs is relatively small but it has a lot going on when it comes to entertainment....and you are at driving distance from LA, San Diego and everything in between.
Lots of outdoor opportunities as well.
Right but you have to drive 2 hours for an event which means 4 hours round trip for every event - That would suck! - that is my point and the full range of 'entertainment' you aren't going to get as in a city like Toronto even though there are some forms of entertainment isn't the same by a long shot... I'm gay and for me, I live in a city with one of the largest Pride Festivities in the world.. If I were in Palm Springs - the closest comparable experience is not in S.D or L.A it is in S.F and it would be a much loooonger drive..

Heck - I couldn't get this type of vibe in L.A or S.D or any southern U.S city except for Miami...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dayr5XQi1Rw

More overall point is - so what the weather is crappy in some places for a few months of the year - but there is a whole lot more than meets the eye to a place on the whole!

Last edited by fusion2; 12-01-2014 at 09:29 PM..
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,885 posts, read 34,627,756 times
Reputation: 10960
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
There are virtually no population centers that don't reach ~20C at least for the very middle of summer, and it's no coincidence.
There does seem to be a sweet spot or at least a minimum of about 20C for the summer. People seem to willing to put up with a lot during the winter provided they get a decent break during the summer. Some of the larger cities in Siberia have insane cold in winter but get up into the 20s during the summer.

I wonder what the largest city in the world is that has no real summer (think 15C maximums or less) and very cold winters?

There are places like the west coast of Norway and Iceland and La Paz in Bolivia that don't really warm up in the summer, but their winters aren't what I would call extremely cold.

Any ideas people?
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
All you need to keep cool is water.....water is like wood to burn in extreme cold.....
Water and wood you need to survive are a lot easier to find in a boreal forest than water in the middle of a scorching hot desert.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
All that has been argued is that an adequate climate is necessary for attracting a significant population. So for example climate (with the invention of AC) allows Phoenix to exist, but also prevents a potential metropolis in central Nunavut from ever existing.

So if there were a list of traits necessary for a significant population center it would be something like this:

climate
economy
government
manpower

(In no particular order, and the list is mostly taken from sociologists like Max Weber)

A potential population center needs to have some economic significance (trade route? center of commerce). It needs some sort of government or laws keeping order. It needs adequate manpower to provide a workforce. And of course it needs an adequate climate to grow food en masse, raise livestock, man the factories, enforce the laws, but also keep people around. Anchorage, Alaska is a great example of a place that can meet these requirements except for climate: despite financial incentives very few will to stay there longer than the job requires thanks to long periods of darkness and extreme cold.

Each of these are interlinked, and humans have been able to create all of these conditions except for climate. Until we learn how control the weather and sun we will not be able to build that city in central Nunavut. So Moscow and St. Petersburg, as well as cities like Helsinki, Stockholm, and Oslo (and Vancouver, Quebec City, and Edmonton) meet what appear to be the minimum requirements of what is necessary for significant human settlement. But north of these cities there are no significant population centers, and it is due to climate more than anything.
So what would happen if all sudden we discovered an abundance of an energy source that could replace petroleum right in the middle of Baffin Island in Nunavut? And it's the only place in the world that has it?

Would a huge city come to life in the tundra?
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
As an example - Acajack pointed out people swimming in Canada, and I myself have seen enough times Canadians swimming when the water is freezing and temperatures are only 20C or so, but they are just taking what they can get. .
It's mostly kids who do that, though.

Lake water tends to be about 25C in southern Ontario and southern Quebec in the summer. That's certainly warm enough to swim in if it's in the upper 20s or the 30s.

The ocean off of LA doesn't really get warmer than that in the middle of summer.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,885 posts, read 34,627,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Unlivable for whom?

Likewise, you need a lot and lot of artificial aid to grow anything in Palm Springs, just as in Churchill.

Granmas and Granpas survive there because of endless AC, swimming pools, staying inside and in the shade. You're comparing that to sitting naked in snow in Churchill's -30C, and therefore your reasoning is = cold is lethal, heat isn't. It's apples and oranges.
Ok, your car brokes down in 40C heat in the middle of the desert, and it's a 5 hour walk. Then your car brokes down in a -40C cold in the middle of Siberia, and it's a 5 hour walk. Which will kill you? The answer is both, most likely.

This is a waste of our both's time, as you're aren't even comparing similar conditions with each other, and your logic is "I don't like cold, and I don't know what to wear or do in cold = nobody can survive in cold".



How come more people live in Murmansk than Palm Springs? How come more people live in Moscow than Madrid? How come more people live in Finland than Alabama? So, what's your point? We could go on until tomorrow.
In any event, old people live in Palm Springs because of the rare combination of warm temperatures and low humidity. But unless you live there, for better or for worse, you don't generally go to Palm Springs in the summer. It's the low season for visitors there.

And no one lives in Death Valley. And many other desert places that are just too hot and uncomfortable.

Even Florida is widely considered to be a destination to be avoided in the summer weather-wise because it's just too hot.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Well - Give me Prague in the winter over Pheonix in the summer....

#Anydamnday
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,885 posts, read 34,627,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Thank you for exactly proving my point and this is what i been saying all along (together with hobbesdj)....modern technology has made living in very hot locales not only tolerable but actually even desirable in many cases.....the same cannot be said about extreme cold places.

By the way, warmer locales have historically always been more populated than cold ones way before the invention of AC....it's a fact.....millions of people live in south east Asia which I can tell you, it is very hard to stand sometimes due to the crazy level of humidity.



Exactly, my point again....people go to very cold place mainly to enjoy a specific activity, skiing (which I like it too by the way and I practice) or to visit very historical cities (a quick example St. Petersburg in Russia).
We pretty much all agree that Banff, Lake Louise with the surrounding landscape are incredibly beautiful....but unless you are going there to skiing, how many people prefer to visit these places in summer rather than winter??
Pretty much nobody visit extremely cold places for the sake of weather......but many go to fairly uninteresting ones in warm weather because of the climate....this is something you do not seem to comprehend.


Nobody goes for tourism in Yellowknife or in Whitehorse....but millions flock to Palm Springs and Las Vegas
They go to Palm Springs and Las Vegas for specific reasons as well. Places with moderately warm climates are those who draw visitors for temperature reasons, not places with extreme heat.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:13 PM
 
6 posts, read 33,477 times
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Australia because it is inhabitable.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,885 posts, read 34,627,756 times
Reputation: 10960
Another few things to consider:

- the super-hot parts of Australia don't seem to have much success getting a lot of people to stick around and settle permanently. The resource-based communities seem to have the fly-in, fly-out culture that is typical of many isolated northern resource communities in Canada.

- countries like the US, France, Russia and China that have colder areas and warmer areas tend to have a majority of their large cities concentrated in colder areas. They may be there for historic reasons but even so they are far from emptying out and continue to grow even though technology (as has been stated here) makes it more comfortable to live in warmer areas.

- in spite of the harshness of cold or cooler climates, these tend to be the areas of the world that first achieved a lifestyle with a high level of comfort. Out of these places then emerged the know-how to make life in hotter places more comfortable.

- there aren't any desertic parts of the world that have high populations. The areas cited in Asia are hot but also wet, fertile and leafy. The Arctic regions are a desert in much the same way central Australia or the Sahara are.
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