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Old 11-24-2014, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,109 posts, read 15,655,671 times
Reputation: 5185

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
As a former Torontonian, I can attest that there is a grain of truth to this. Torontonians seem to take a peculiar pride in being able to say:

"I can't make it to your party on the weekend/golf on Saturday/other occasion outside of normal work hours; I have to work."
"I put in 80 hours last week; I know next week will be more."
"Sorry I skipped your wedding, but work called me in."

As regards the last, it was the excuse a (former) good friend offered for not making it to my own wedding.

There's a reason I left Toronto and now live in a part of the country where work, while important, is not so important that it takes precedence over one's personal activities. People honestly regret having to miss something if they cannot get out of work. And unlike Toronto, employers hereabouts do try (within reason) to accommodate employees' requests for time off. It may not always be possible, though.
Not that Toronto is NYC - but at the genesis of New Amsterdam the objective was to make money or at the time make Guilders for the Dutch West India Company.. This is still a big part of the DNA of NYC which is also the business capital of the U.S. I don't think anyone will argue against the fact that in Canada - Toronto is the business capital of the country so people will exude that to a certain degree - work work work make paper.. I for one don't see that with everyone I know though and I know alot of laid back people but yeah sure - in the Canadian context I guess Toronto can be seen as living to work instead of the opposite.. Really though, no more or no less than other large globally connected 'business' cities.. I'm sure Frankfurt is looked upon in a similar vein in Germany or Milan in Italy, Sydney in Australia etc etc.. Though as I said before, I doubt that Frankfurt or Milan and others are as irrationally maligned as Toronto is in Canada - if I'm wrong great - we sure would like to feel some love from those Canadians outside of the city - we don't get much or I don't see much - I see alot of haters... I just identify it as childish, nonsensical and petty behaviour and ignore it because it isn't rooted in anything substantive. When people are ready to grow up and be objective and balanced about things than i'll listen. I dunno - maybe i'm spending too much time reading the Canada section of C/D...

Having said all that, you can't equate a few negative experiences with some employers in Toronto with all employers in Toronto.. Aside from a pretty generous paid leave time off package I get, there is also the option to take several unpaid L.O.A.. I'm not the only Torontontian who enjoys flexibility with leave time - as a matter of fact I work in one of the largest employment clusters in the GTA and the ability for shift workers to tailor shifts through a combination of paid leave, shift trades + family leave is quite good.

As for this

"I can't make it to your party on the weekend/golf on Saturday/other occasion outside of normal work hours; I have to work."
"I put in 80 hours last week; I know next week will be more."
"Sorry I skipped your wedding, but work called me in."

C'mon dude - are you serious lol...zzzzzzz I don't know who you called your circle in T.O but that mentality certainly isn't representative of the majority of Torontonians or the majority of the one's I call family/friend.

Last edited by fusion2; 11-24-2014 at 08:07 PM..
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Old 11-24-2014, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,109 posts, read 15,655,671 times
Reputation: 5185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
The majority of workers are not in a position to bargain anything, unless they are unionized or in a field where individuals can bargain independently.

I'd like to see the stats, if they exist, of how many workers in Ontario who can't bargain get 3 weeks after five years. I have no idea how many that would be, however I'm sure the worker in Ontario who doesn't get 3 weeks after 5 years would be a little envious of those in provinces where they do.
Or they could simply apply to a company that offers more than 3 weeks of vacation after 5 years of service. I have minimal sympathy for these individuals - after all, they were aware of the benefits package the company offered when they were hired.. Asking about paid time off and how that accrues is very important. Anyway all this is balderdash if most people in Ontario who work for a company >5 years have more than 3 weeks per year of vac time.. I'm sure you'd find that that would exactly be the case irrespective of what is mandated by government.
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Old 11-24-2014, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,467 posts, read 15,261,836 times
Reputation: 11886
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Or they could simply apply to a company that offers more than 3 weeks of vacation after 5 years of service. I have minimal sympathy for these individuals - after all, they were aware of the benefits package the company offered when they were hired.. Asking about paid time off and how that accrues is very important. Anyway all this is balderdash if most people in Ontario who work for a company >5 years have more than 3 weeks per year of vac time.. I'm sure you'd find that that would exactly be the case irrespective of what is mandated by government.
I think people here are missing my point. I am talking about workers who do not have the luxury of multiple offers or the chance to work for a larger corporation. People who work for small companies, or lack the education to get those good jobs.

Mandated vacation by law, helps these type of workers.
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Old 11-24-2014, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,109 posts, read 15,655,671 times
Reputation: 5185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I think people here are missing my point. I am talking about workers who do not have the luxury of multiple offers or the chance to work for a larger corporation. People who work for small companies, or lack the education to get those good jobs.

Mandated vacation by law, helps these type of workers.
Actually, I would imagine that smaller more progressive companies would offer attractive leave/benefits packages.. It would be interesting to make a comparison to their larger brethren. My company has 1100 employees so it certainly isn't a large corporation.. Its a mid-sized company.

I don't disagree with you that 2 weeks is rather light however and that some people are left out in the cold when it comes to leave time. I think Ontario should align itself with the other Provinces in this regard.

Last edited by fusion2; 11-24-2014 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,705 posts, read 37,531,952 times
Reputation: 11506
I would like to mention that regardless of what the minimum legal requirement for paid annual leave was, it has never really had on impact on the amount of holidays I've had since I've been working full time after university in white collar jobs. And this included a fairly long period of living and working in Ontario.
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,109 posts, read 15,655,671 times
Reputation: 5185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I would like to mention that regardless of what the minimum legal requirement for paid annual leave was, it has never really had on impact on the amount of holidays I've had since I've been working full time after university in white collar jobs. And this included a fairly long period of living and working in Ontario.
I think that your experience and my experience mirrors that of the majority.
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Old 11-25-2014, 02:00 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
3,578 posts, read 3,304,305 times
Reputation: 5417
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
C'mon dude - are you serious lol...
Yes. Yes, I am.

I was told, more than a few times, that I had to work eight hours on Saturday. And eight hours on Sunday. All unpaid. It was either that, or lose my job.

There's a reason I decided to go to law school and become a lawyer: because I got fed up with employers ordering my friends and I around at work, and telling us what we won't receive, without legal basis.

Now, I work for ordinary Joes making sure that their rights under the appropriate legislation are upheld.

Toronto is a fine city, and if you have a good job there, with an understanding employer, good for you. I worked for a lot of high-tech startups, whose founders (engineers, who forgot that the "real people" who work for them are not engineers and who only look forward to their next paycheque) felt that everybody should feel the passion they do, and work for free.

Nah. Didn't work that way. As I said, I became a lawyer, who now works for employees--and I delight in putting those @#$%^& engineers in their place when they fire one of my clients without legal cause.
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Old 11-25-2014, 02:34 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
3,578 posts, read 3,304,305 times
Reputation: 5417
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I don't know who you called your circle in T.O but that mentality certainly isn't representative of the majority of Torontonians or the majority of the one's I call family/friend.
On this, we may have to disagree.

My experience was employers who told me, "You have to work on Saturday." (IBM) "You have to work on Saturday" (Remanco Systems Inc.) "You have to work on Saturday" (Words that Work).

"Words that Work" is particulalry in my sights as it screwed me around sixteen ways to Sunday. Hey, Mark? Larurie? Let's talk contract law. Let's really talk contract law.
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,705 posts, read 37,531,952 times
Reputation: 11506
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
On this, we may have to disagree.

My experience was employers who told me, "You have to work on Saturday." (IBM) "You have to work on Saturday" (Remanco Systems Inc.) "You have to work on Saturday" (Words that Work).

"Words that Work" is particulalry in my sights as it screwed me around sixteen ways to Sunday. Hey, Mark? Larurie? Let's talk contract law. Let's really talk contract law.
Those are... hmm... very precise examples.
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Old 11-25-2014, 10:43 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,311,137 times
Reputation: 16962
When Chevy attempts to make a point, his really sharp stick has a less than 1 micron tip. LOL. Hope they peruse this thread.
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