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Exactly, majoun. It's become rabidly enforced AND apparently that's what people want
Directly related to the population of California getting less white.
People started wanting it to be rabidly enforced and harshly punished when it became seen as a way to put more black and brown men behind bars. It became part of white middle class/upper middle class paranoia about nonwhites (and "the wrong kind of whites") Much like certain other things in this state and country. Racial paranoia with some class paranoia mixed in. Once law and order conservative types joined forces with man-hating feminist types (who had been taught that patriarchy was behind all evils in the world and that men were intrinsically evil) who swayed the liberals, there was a sea change.So it is essentially about White Privilege and Female Privilege as well as the rise of the prison-industrial state. And the scared, sheltered bourgie white public eats it all up.
I have no sexual interest in teenagers at all but being a strong advocate of the legalization of cannabis I know the basic forces at work.
It will be interesting to see how the decline of the middle class and the reversion to pre-New Deal economic norms in the US affects these perceptions. Americans 80 years ago were not law and order crazy like they became later, because they saw themselves as being vulnerable. In the neighborhood my grandparents grew up in, half of everybody there worked for Capone, and there was no stigma to doing so. The affluence that long separated so called "white America" from darker skinned America is crumbling. The OWS movement and its wilder side might be a sign of how things might change, but that's a whole other topic.
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This is NOT the country I grew up in, not just for this but in so many other ways. So stupid, so vicious, so eager to imprison its own citizens and blow up imaginary terrorists overseas, both at huge expense ..... then we complain about the budget deficit and try to cut down on health care to fix the situation. It's too late for me to go elsewhere, though.
The concept of gay and straight are much less defined in the Czech Republic. That is one of the main reasons why so much pornography comes from that country. Has anyone found this to be true?
I've lived in Syria long enough to learn quite a bit about the culture:
1 - Most people there get married, women when they are 17-24 and men 25-30. Men are expected by society to have a profession, own a home and finish the mandatory military service before they marry. Despite popular belief child brides are illegal and polygamy is not that common esp in the big cities.
2 - Everyone is expected to be a virgin before marriage, but watch out for the men that travel overseas for an "education", they usually don't come back virgins. That's not to say all women in Syria remain "pure" either, there are plenty of opportunities for either gender to get it on before marriage in Syria.
3 - Homosexuality is uncommon but it exists, I actually think it's much easier to be homosexual in an Arab country than a red neck state simply because men kissing men and women kissing women is common in public places, gender segregation can also help the homosexual.
4 - Divorce happens but is not as common.
5 - The people I've met seem to want to have their first child asap, people seem to get pregnant within the first 3 months of marriage, the next child usually, but not always follows farther behind.
6 - The grooms family pays for the wedding. If the family has money they hire people to sing to the groom about his new wife and how lucky he is just before he enters what would be the American version of a reception. The legal ceremony is done in a government office and the reception is a party in a lavishly decorated hall just for the women, the groom enters the reception at the end, some of the guests leave and some stay. Usually the reception starts at 8pm and goes until past midnight, the bride is one of the last people to arrive, usually after 9:30pm and she dances and goes from table to table greeting guests. Trust me it's a lot more fun to attend a wedding reception than it is to be the bride in one. Guests are fed mini desserts, fruit juice, wedding cake and ice cream or milk pudding (usually depends on the weather).
7 - The groom will present a gift to his bride at the wedding reception, this is called a mahr in Arabic and is agreed upon before the wedding, most women get gold jewelry, some get cash.
8 - Most women don't work, however many of them will go to university or trade school for years and years. In Syria it's "cool" to have a wife with a degree.
9 - Baby showers happen, but after the baby is born, the child's grandmother plays host and seats everyone. The baby shower is more about letting people know the baby is here and healthy. People give gifts, dance and socialize. For Muslims in Syria they shave the baby's hair, weigh it and donate the weight in gold to charity.
Last edited by janacanada; 11-21-2011 at 01:57 AM..
Reason: adding a few things
I've lived in Syria long enough to learn quite a bit about the culture:
1 - Most people there get married, women when they are 17-24 and men 25-30. Men are expected by society to have a profession, own a home and finish the mandatory military service before they marry. Despite popular belief child brides are illegal and polygamy is not that common esp in the big cities.
2 - Everyone is expected to be a virgin before marriage, but watch out for the men that travel overseas for an "education", they usually don't come back virgins. That's not to say all women in Syria remain "pure" either, there are plenty of opportunities for either gender to get it on before marriage in Syria.
3 - Homosexuality is uncommon but it exists, I actually think it's much easier to be homosexual in an Arab country than a red neck state simply because men kissing men and women kissing women is common in public places, gender segregation can also help the homosexual.
4 - Divorce happens but is not as common.
5 - The people I've met seem to want to have their first child asap, people seem to get pregnant within the first 3 months of marriage, the next child usually, but not always follows farther behind.
6 - The grooms family pays for the wedding. If the family has money they hire people to sing to the groom about his new wife and how lucky he is just before he enters what would be the American version of a reception. The legal ceremony is done in a government office and the reception is a party in a lavishly decorated hall just for the women, the groom enters the reception at the end, some of the guests leave and some stay. Usually the reception starts at 8pm and goes until past midnight, the bride is one of the last people to arrive, usually after 9:30pm and she dances and goes from table to table greeting guests. Trust me it's a lot more fun to attend a wedding reception than it is to be the bride in one. Guests are fed mini desserts, fruit juice, wedding cake and ice cream or milk pudding (usually depends on the weather).
7 - The groom will present a gift to his bride at the wedding reception, this is called a mahr in Arabic and is agreed upon before the wedding, most women get gold jewelry, some get cash.
8 - Most women don't work, however many of them will go to university or trade school for years and years. In Syria it's "cool" to have a wife with a degree.
9 - Baby showers happen, but after the baby is born, the child's grandmother plays host and seats everyone. The baby shower is more about letting people know the baby is here and healthy. People give gifts, dance and socialize. For Muslims in Syria they shave the baby's hair, weigh it and donate the weight in gold to charity.
#9 is really interesting. I have never heard about that before.
I'm a twenty-something Canadian living in Egypt, and the cultures are very different.
...In Canada, it's normal to start dating in ones teens. Schools and hang-out spots are the typical social context for meeting someone; parents tend to stay out of it.
...Most people lose their virginity in the 13-18 age bracket. The whole save-it-for-marriage thing seems bigger in the US; it's a trifle alien to people I know in my age group. Being a virgin later than your mid-twenties is seen as odd, even a little dysfunctional.
...Most people don't start seeking serious relationships until their mid-20s or so. Relationships before that tend to be treated as flings or dates, and often have lifespans of a few weeks to half a year.
...Most people don't start thinking of marriage until around age thirty. It's seen as something one does after a few years of a succesful relationship, rather than the inaugeration of one. People who get married quickly ( i.e. within a few weeks to a few months of knowing each other ), are seen as hasty. Arranged marriages are alien and unheard of outside immigrant communities.
...Among people about 35 and under, homosexuality is a non-issue. The older generations tend to be more and more uncomfortable about it the further you go back. Polyamorous and open relationships tend to be more common these days too, though still pretty rare.
...Divorce is very common, and has no stigma attached. Cheating is considered bad, and having a mistress is a definite no-no, but both happen, especially the former.
...The type of marriage idealized among many in my generation is the equal one. Both work, both help out in the home, both raise the kids. The division of labor in homes still exists to a large extent, but the '50s housewife ideal is pretty much dead.
...People tend to be very open about their sex lives. This seems like the biggest difference between my generation and my parent's one, who seem to share many of the same value otherwise ( compared to the enormous gap between them and their parents' values ).
On the other hand, in Egypt:
...In Egypt, dating tends to start much later, in the late teens to early twenties. It tends to be heavily controlled by the parents, and women's actions ( much more so than men's ) are highly restricted. The dating pool tends to be friends of the family, though college and work-place romance are fairly common.
...Virginity is high prized. As someone said in an above post about Syria, everyone is theoretically a virgin until marriage. I'll say theoretically, because often it's not the case, especially in cities; especially for guys. I've known many highly respectable and devout men ( and some women, too ) live a double-life here. However, one could never, ever be open about such things here.
...Dating is ( as idealized in the culture ) an entirely chaste process of meeting and greeting the family, family-supervised and generally, the couple are afforded very little time on their own. Couples do take time on their own, but it tends to be on the sly.
...Marriage tends to happen very rapidly here and very young, but early-teenage or ''child'' brides are essentially unheard of in the cities. The more educated the class the later the marriage tends to be, so among my colleagues mid-twenties marriages are very common. Arranged marriages are common, but also in decline.
...Not being married after thirty or so is considered pretty strange here. On the other hand, for a conservative society, there's less stigma on divorce than one might think. There are quite a few divorced people around, though less than in North America. This is a new phenomena in Egypt though; divorce was, forty years ago, almost non-existent.
...Homosexuality is taboo, but everywhere, just like sex before marriage. Polygamous marriage is technically okay but getting rarer all the time here, and isn't idealized in the society the way one-man, one-woman marriage is. You see wedding shops everywhere, but you never see a marriage picture with one man and two women, even though it's technically okay by the society's mores.
...Gender roles are very much leaning towards the man works and the woman stays at home, but there's a lot of variance from that. In the poor segment, everyone needs to work to get by; in the middle-class segment, many educated women want to keep their job after marriage.
A lot of these things are generational and regional ( I'm in Cairo; the countryside and much of the south is fifty years ago, socially ). Things are changing a lot in the middle east, even though it's still a different world from many western countries.
I think sexuallity/relationships norms in Argentina are very similar to USA. Specially in what you say that infidelity is considered "wrong" but most people do it anyway .
I think the only different could be among gay people? But im only talking about Buenos Aires (where i live) here, probably is different in inland Argentina. In BA if someone is gay the dont try to hide it or anything, since gay marriage is legal, and you see thousand of gay couples (women or man) holding hands and kissing in squares. It is very normal. Then again, this is probably a big city thing and New York maybe is like that, too. I think that a little town in the middle of Argentina wouldnt have it so normalized as here?
Trust me. I'm from San Francisco, and gays DO NOT HIDE there. I think it is a good thing because I hate conservative societies.
Trust me. I'm from San Francisco, and gays DO NOT HIDE there. I think it is a good thing because I hate conservative societies.
From this thread it sounds like there may actually be more homosexuality in conservative societies then liberal ones. I really don't understand the point of making it shamefull if it is going to happen anyway.
I live in a conservative part of the USA and my eyes were really opened to just how prevalent homosexuality is in our species the first time I used my gym's sauna. There was a group of guys in there whom I'm sure probably all lived a straight lifestyle looking at me like I was a piece of meat! That first time I thought it was just a fluke thing but similar situations happened so many times I just quit using it.
Before I met my wife, I've been in a couple of relationships with girls from Southern Europe. These were pretty girls, invariably dressed to the nines, very sexy, very meticulously made up. But when it came to physical contact, they were also surprisingly prude, sometimes even awkward and embarassed. Being used to Flemish and Dutch girls, who in general don't seem to have many issues with the physical side of a relationship, this took me a bit off guard. It also led me to believe that there really is a difference between Latin and Germanic Europe when it comes to sexuality.
And here I am in a quandary, because I'm much more physically attracted to the Mediterranean type (just find them more feminine), unfortunately they are way more prude than Germanic or British females : "Murph's Law"!
I think if sexuality wasn't so repressed in the muslim world there would be far fewer pissed off young men and less angst out in that region of the world. In order to get laid you have to go the suicide bomber route and fingers crossed you get 70 virgins in heaven.
From this thread it sounds like there may actually be more homosexuality in conservative societies then liberal ones.
Especially conservative Islamic societies.
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Exactly
