U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-11-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: American Expat
2,190 posts, read 5,089,699 times
Reputation: 1893

Advertisements

They recently released the new HDI.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2011_EN_Summary.pdf

1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Netherlands
4. United States
5. New Zealand
6. Canada
7. Ireland
8. Lichtenstein
9. Germany
10. Sweden

The top 10 are close, so the difference in the ranking here is negligible. But, one should note that the the inequality-adjusted HDI would mean we ( U.S.A ) fall to #23, whereas the other Top 10 do stay in the Top 10 ( Ok, Canada falls to #12 ). In the Gender-inequality index , we fall to # 47. Considering all 3 indexes - Norway, The Netherlands, and Germany are in the Top 3, so they stay in the Top 10. Everybody else drops by quite a bit (Australia #18, New Zealand #32, Ireland #33, etc... ). Good for us that everybody only brags about their place in the 1st column There's a lot of information there. It also shows the change from the previous year. Not much changed, though.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-11-2011, 04:39 PM
 
7,457 posts, read 10,524,852 times
Reputation: 5971
Against the Human Development Index, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

Let the debate begin!

I hope this thread is not a response to the Brazilian thread. If it is, this is sort of a deja vu case, since the British also had problems accepting that the world they knew had changed, especially once the US clearly began to run the show. Afterall, the US was nothing more than ex British colonies filled with undesirables, how could they replace the most powerful country on earth (aka Great Britain at that time)? Impossible!

Ah life, always repeating itself... the only difference is that before people simply pretended things didn't changed, now they ignore the yardstick that has been used for decades to measure progress and invent/put more attention to other measures that continously puts them on top. Come on guys, lets play fair.

GDP and GDP per capita was good enough when The West was developing well over a hundred years ago, it still is the most important indicators to measure progress in the rest of the world. No need to change the rules of the game when things don't go your way.

Last edited by AntonioR; 11-11-2011 at 04:49 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2011, 04:46 PM
 
Location: American Expat
2,190 posts, read 5,089,699 times
Reputation: 1893
Default Random rant and off topic..go away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
Against the Human Development Index, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

Let the debate begin!

I hope this thread is not a response to the Brazilian thread. If it is, this is sort of a deja vu case, since the British also had problems accepting that the world they knew had changed, especially once the US clearly began to run the show. Afterall, the US was nothing more than ex British colonies filled with undesirables, how could they replace the most powerful country on earth (aka Great Britain at that time)? Impossible!

Ah life, always repeating itself...
What the hell are you rambling about!? If you have a problem with the British, why don't you go and find one so you can tell him this..

Edit: In case you are Brazilian and you don't like where you are on this list, and you think this list is just bogus.. well, go to Norway, USA, Germany, or France, or wherever and you can see why they are at the top of the list..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Macao
16,207 posts, read 39,523,483 times
Reputation: 9960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
They recently released the new HDI.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2011_EN_Summary.pdf

1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Netherlands
4. United States
5. New Zealand
6. Canada
7. Ireland
8. Lichtenstein
9. Germany
10. Sweden
The top 10 are close, so the difference in the ranking here is negligible. But, one should note that the the inequality-adjusted HDI would mean we ( U.S.A ) fall to #23, whereas the other Top 10 do stay in the Top 10 ( Ok, Canada falls to #12 ). In the Gender-inequality index , we fall to # 47. Considering all 3 indexes - Norway, The Netherlands, and Germany are in the Top 3, so they stay in the Top 10. Everybody else drops by quite a bit (Australia #18, New Zealand #32, Ireland #33, etc... ). Good for us that everybody only brags about their place in the 1st column There's a lot of
information there. It also shows the change from the previous year. Not much changed, though.
Where are countries like Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong, etc. in all of this?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2011, 05:34 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,831,589 times
Reputation: 3417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
Against the Human Development Index, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

Let the debate begin!

I hope this thread is not a response to the Brazilian thread. If it is, this is sort of a deja vu case, since the British also had problems accepting that the world they knew had changed, especially once the US clearly began to run the show. Afterall, the US was nothing more than ex British colonies filled with undesirables, how could they replace the most powerful country on earth (aka Great Britain at that time)? Impossible!

Ah life, always repeating itself... the only difference is that before people simply pretended things didn't changed, now they ignore the yardstick that has been used for decades to measure progress and invent/put more attention to other measures that continously puts them on top. Come on guys, lets play fair.

GDP and GDP per capita was good enough when The West was developing well over a hundred years ago, it still is the most important indicators to measure progress in the rest of the world. No need to change the rules of the game when things don't go your way.
I don't see the UK anywhere in the top 10 and the OP is not from Britain either afaik, so I don't quite understand what you're on about

Anyway, I briefly skimmed through the HDI report. Not a lot of changes compared to last year, the only notable one is Libya (-10, not surprising). It's good to see the Netherlands is still in the top 3 (inequality adjusted HDI: #4, gender inequality index: #2) and I'm not surprised to see Norway at #1 (don't they always top these kinds of lists? ). I'm a bit surprised to see the wealthiest European country (Luxembourg) only at #25.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,831,589 times
Reputation: 3417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Where are countries like Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong, etc. in all of this?
#12 Japan
#13 Hong Kong
#15 Republic of Korea
#26 Singapore
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2011, 06:42 PM
 
Location: American Expat
2,190 posts, read 5,089,699 times
Reputation: 1893
Default I guess Japan got nuked off the list... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Where are countries like Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong, etc. in all of this?

lol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post

Anyway, I briefly skimmed through the HDI report. Not a lot of changes compared to last year, the only notable one is Libya (-10, not surprising). It's good to see the Netherlands is still in the top 3 (inequality adjusted HDI: #4, gender inequality index: #2) and I'm not surprised to see Norway at #1 (don't they always top these kinds of lists? ). I'm a bit surprised to see the wealthiest European country (Luxembourg) only at #25.

From what I understand, they will update it again some time next year. So it will consider the entire year. And a few years ago, it was as high as 0.97, and the U.S. at at # 15. Or take 2008 - The first 23 countries listed are very close to each other. #1 was 0.97 and #23 was 0.94. Now #1 is 0.94 and #23 is 0.87. The difference is greater now. But I think they used a new formula, though. So now it's a little different. There was a big change when they started using it in 2010. Like, Iceland dropped by 14 ranks. They used to be at or near the top. New Zealand got a big boost in 2010 and went up 17 spots. I guess there's an explanation for this and for Luxembourg.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2011, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
4,267 posts, read 6,275,974 times
Reputation: 3476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
They recently released the new HDI.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2011_EN_Summary.pdf

1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Netherlands
4. United States
5. New Zealand
6. Canada
7. Ireland
8. Lichtenstein
9. Germany
10. Sweden

The top 10 are close, so the difference in the ranking here is negligible. But, one should note that the the inequality-adjusted HDI would mean we ( U.S.A ) fall to #23, whereas the other Top 10 do stay in the Top 10 ( Ok, Canada falls to #12 ). In the Gender-inequality index , we fall to # 47. Considering all 3 indexes - Norway, The Netherlands, and Germany are in the Top 3, so they stay in the Top 10. Everybody else drops by quite a bit (Australia #18, New Zealand #32, Ireland #33, etc... ). Good for us that everybody only brags about their place in the 1st column There's a lot of information there. It also shows the change from the previous year. Not much changed, though.
You got it the wrong way round actually, its the first column is the most important, becuase thats the overall position after all the indexs are taken into account, including the Gender Inequality and wealth inequality index, as well as the many other indexs the UN uses, but has not seperatly published in the article.

The index where Australia is 18th New Zealand 32nd and ireland 33rd is the Gender inequality index only.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 11-11-2011 at 11:48 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2011, 08:41 AM
 
190 posts, read 568,708 times
Reputation: 219
The HDI is misleading. It represents the potential for quality of life. If there's massive income equality, that quality of life is off limits to most (assuming a few have a large chunk of the wealth and the rest little). So, they have an inequality-adjusted HDI, which represents a more accurate picture of the quality of life the average person really experiences. In this ranking, European countries as well as Australia change very little or increase in ranking, the US falls 19 places to 23!

List of countries by inequality-adjusted HDI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rank Country IHDI HDI Loss% Rank change
1 Norway 0.890 0.943 5.6 0
2 Australia 0.856 0.929 7.9 0
3 Sweden 0.851 0.904 5.9 5
4 Netherlands 0.846 0.910 7.0 -1
5 Iceland 0.845 0.898 5.9 5
6 Ireland 0.843 0.908 7.2 0
7 Germany 0.842 0.905 6.9 0
8 Denmark 0.842 0.895 6.0 4
9 Switzerland 0.840 0.903 7.0 0
10 Slovenia 0.837 0.884 5.3 7
11 Finland 0.833 0.882 5.6 7
12 Canada 0.829 0.908 8.7 -7
13 Czech Republic 0.821 0.865 5.0 9
14 Austria 0.820 0.885 7.4 1
15 Belgium 0.819 0.886 7.6 -1
16 France 0.804 0.884 9.1 0
17 Spain 0.799 0.878 8.9 2
18 Luxembourg 0.799 0.867 7.8 3
19 United Kingdom 0.791 0.863 8.4 4
20 Slovakia 0.787 0.834 5.7 7
21 Israel 0.779 0.888 12.3 -8
22 Italy 0.779 0.874 10.9 -2
23 United States 0.771 0.910 15.3 -19
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2011, 09:39 AM
 
Location: American Expat
2,190 posts, read 5,089,699 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
You got it the wrong way round actually, its the first column is the most important, becuase thats the overall position after all the indexs are taken into account, including the Gender Inequality and wealth inequality index, as well as the many other indexs the UN uses, but has not seperatly published in the article.

The index where Australia is 18th New Zealand 32nd and ireland 33rd is the Gender inequality index only.
Wrong? It says "adjusted". That means the first column does not consider it.. so the 2nd and the 3rd is the adjusted HDI.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikJohnsson View Post
The HDI is misleading. It represents the potential for quality of life. If there's massive income equality, that quality of life is off limits to most (assuming a few have a large chunk of the wealth and the rest little). So, they have an inequality-adjusted HDI, which represents a more accurate picture of the quality of life the average person really experiences. In this ranking, European countries as well as Australia change very little or increase in ranking, the US falls 19 places to 23!

List of countries by inequality-adjusted HDI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rank Country IHDI HDI Loss% Rank change
1 Norway 0.890 0.943 5.6 0
2 Australia 0.856 0.929 7.9 0
3 Sweden 0.851 0.904 5.9 5
4 Netherlands 0.846 0.910 7.0 -1
5 Iceland 0.845 0.898 5.9 5
6 Ireland 0.843 0.908 7.2 0
7 Germany 0.842 0.905 6.9 0
8 Denmark 0.842 0.895 6.0 4
9 Switzerland 0.840 0.903 7.0 0
10 Slovenia 0.837 0.884 5.3 7
11 Finland 0.833 0.882 5.6 7
12 Canada 0.829 0.908 8.7 -7
13 Czech Republic 0.821 0.865 5.0 9
14 Austria 0.820 0.885 7.4 1
15 Belgium 0.819 0.886 7.6 -1
16 France 0.804 0.884 9.1 0
17 Spain 0.799 0.878 8.9 2
18 Luxembourg 0.799 0.867 7.8 3
19 United Kingdom 0.791 0.863 8.4 4
20 Slovakia 0.787 0.834 5.7 7
21 Israel 0.779 0.888 12.3 -8
22 Italy 0.779 0.874 10.9 -2
23 United States 0.771 0.910 15.3 -19
huh, "potential" ? You do realize that not 100% of the population is at the same level ? The HDI is the average. Everybody knows there are poor people in every country. I would hardly call it "potential" HDI. Also, poor people have better access to services then those in poor countries. That's what's included in quality of life. I'm sure there are some poor countries where the income inequality is low because they are all poor. Does this mean they are better off? I don't think so.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:05 PM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top