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I don't know what you're thinking of when you think of communism. But to me, it seems like the Sex Slave Trade is the free market in its purest form. You take what you have the power to get, you resell it for the highest price you can, you concern yourself only with your own profits, and you evade government regulation.
It is the collapse of communism and the emergence of the free market that has opened the door to the sex slave trade in eastern Europe.
Poor countries will make up all kinds of bloated stories about massive numbers of girls being forced against their will into international sex slavery to garner the world's sympathy and attention. People are being EXTREMELY naive if they think that girls who are "dancers" or "models" do not willingly prostitute their bodies to men for cold, hard cash. What world do people live in? How do you think these girls make most of their money? It is to laugh...
And how would all these girls know about it, living so long behind the "iron curtain"? What would they know about the West, really, particularly the ones from the provinces?
Of course many of them were conned into this sh*t by people who blatantly lied to them, about hiring them as models, maids or what's not.
Of course after the hard cold truth became known with time, the women who kept on choosing this path were doing it on their own risk. But you can't say the same about the nineties. People like Datafeed prefer to see the world the way they find it convenient for their own beliefs.
commies had no morality....no trust of the state....and felt it was ok to cheat the system. they lie and cheat everyday.
Oh, and by the way..
Commies were people, human beings like anybody else. And as people, SOME of them did have morality, SOME did not.
If Putin for example stopped being a commie, does it mean that he magically somehow acquired morality? I think not. But true commies actually believed in the good of the Soviet system, that they've considered a welfare state. And you know what? They have a right to point it out after capitalism took over the former USSR, with all its rampant prostitution, homelessness, unemployment, and the rest.
And how would all these girls know about it, living so long behind the "iron curtain"? What would they know about the West, really, particularly the ones from the provinces?
Of course many of them were conned into this sh*t by people who blatantly lied to them, about hiring them as models, maids or what's not.
Of course after the hard cold truth became known with time, the women who kept on choosing this path were doing it on their own risk. But you can't say the same about the nineties. People like Datafeed prefer to see the world the way they find it convenient for their own beliefs.
Erasure, i expected more of you....ad hominem attacks and a failure to engage the facts.
i actually worked on some anti-trafficking projects so I am not speaking from my bopa.
Did you read my posts? Sometimes they are nuanced.
In the 90s it is undisputed that many of these girls were tricked and their naivety/unsophistication preyed upon. They were often sold by their own close associates.
google arizonia market. an excellent expose by vanity fair during the balkan conflict about the slave market for women in the badlands of bosnia.
all I am saying is that this problem is no longer in mass effect. AID and other agencies have attacked this cause de celebre in eastern europe. the girls from EE that go now do so of their own free will. they all know that dancing is a euphemism for prostitution.
the largest front in this war is now india, africa, and to an extent SEA where involuntary slavery exists. ...In Eastern Europe now, it's more like paid voluntarily bondage...not a pretty picture on either front.
Erasure, i expected more of you....ad hominem attacks and a failure to engage the facts.
i actually worked on some anti-trafficking projects so I am not speaking from my bopa.
Did you read my posts? Sometimes they are nuanced.
In the 90s it is undisputed that many of these girls were tricked and their naivety/unsophistication preyed upon.They were often sold by their own close associates.
Now we are talking. Because all your "nuances" are lost behind your statements like
"It's an economic decision. Fullstop. No need to trick girls when women are lining up to sell themselves.
I know many women who do this. Most of them return multiple times with bags of cash. After they pay off their debt they keep the money and buy cars, clothes, and flats in Kishnev or Kiev"
and what's even more interesting -
"I am sure no father, mother, or brother wants their daughter or sister to be a prostitute. Forced or not is largely irrelevant in my book."
See? I 'm reading, that's why I could put things in simple terms summarized in couple of sentences. And even if you've mentioned once that
"These days--although before it was different--the US, the EU, and other multinational institutions have saturated previous areas where women were trafficked educating them about perils of going abroad to work."
it was sure "different" before the problem became recognizable, and there is no way these organizations could "saturate" all those remote villages and small towns where a lot of these girls were recruited from.
Another thing you've mentioned was that your girl's mother HAD A CHOICE of working at a factory in St. Pet. But it's St. Pet after all, and a lot of people in small cities and villages didn't have even such choices AT ALL, so it was much easier to recruit them.
Those are facts too you know, so I am not sure why would you expect from me anything "more" or "less"..
Now we are talking. Because all your "nuances" are lost behind your statements like
"It's an economic decision. Fullstop. No need to trick girls when women are lining up to sell themselves.
I know many women who do this. Most of them return multiple times with bags of cash. After they pay off their debt they keep the money and buy cars, clothes, and flats in Kishnev or Kiev"
and what's even more interesting -
"I am sure no father, mother, or brother wants their daughter or sister to be a prostitute. Forced or not is largely irrelevant in my book."
See? I 'm reading, that's why I could put things in simple terms summarized in couple of sentences. And even if you've mentioned once that
"These days--although before it was different--the US, the EU, and other multinational institutions have saturated previous areas where women were trafficked educating them about perils of going abroad to work."
it was sure "different" before the problem became recognizable, and there is no way these organizations could "saturate" all those remote villages and small towns where a lot of these girls were recruited from.
Another thing you've mentioned was that your girl's mother HAD A CHOICE of working at a factory in St. Pet. But it's St. Pet after all, and a lot of people in small cities and villages didn't have even such choices AT ALL, so it was much easier to recruit them.
Those are facts too you know, so I am not sure why would you expect from me anything "more" or "less"..
Hi Mam,
i think we are tracking (in agreement): in the immediate aftermath of the implosion of the Soviet empire, yea, the girls were tricked...or literally had no choice.
olga told me about how she picked vegetables to eat in the forest to eat at a very young age. brook my heart. brings tears to my eyes as I type...damn i miss my little angel...
now it's a different ballgame. most girls know the score.
do we agree?
olga's mom's choice was to leave her job as an accountant in moldova and travel to St. pete to do manual labor in a fish factory for Russians. her sister went to Italy to be a maid. is that a choice? i dunno...to me it's the same as looking in the fridge, seeing no food, and deciding to be a prostitute to feed yourself and your family.
both options suck.
where do we disagree?
yes, economic pressure forces some women into prostitution and some men into forced labor.
for better or for worse, I used to party a lot when I worked in Kiev and Chisnau. I know many of these girls who are on the "circuit." I know what a two month holiday in Turkey or Cyprus means...I'd see them at the club one night and for the next few months the cell phone would be off. most were from the village...heck, every place in Moldova was a village. i even paid some of their "balances" off when the rookies got in over their head...no strings attached...I swear. I was 25/26 on per diem.
those girls are not that stupid anymore. really. they want fast money and don't to work for peanuts at home.
Trafficking in Eastern European and the former Soviet republics women is a huge business, bringing from $ 5 billion to $ 32 billion a year to the sex industry's tycoons. After the collapse of communism, the centuries-old sex industry acquired an exotic new product, women from Eastern and Central Europe. With their Western looks, college education and good manners, they were much more attractive to many customers than the Asian and Latin American women who preceded them. Ukrainian women who were promised work as au pairs, waitresses, models or dancers often made it no farther than the Balkans, where they are forced into service in local brothels, often behind barred windows. Some were literally bought and sold as slaves.
After being sold, they will be locked in a room, fed one meal a day, tortured with cigarette burns to destroy her self-esteem, and forced to have sex with up to a dozen men a day, seven days a week, until exhaustion or disease wipe out their market value. The pimp makes back his investment in less than a week. The scale of this traffic is mind-numbing. In Germany, up to half a million Eastern European women work as prostitutes. The streets of Italy are lined with Romanian and Moldovan teenagers. Other serious offenders include Greece, Turkey and South Korea, while some of the "Natashas" end up in Toronto, Chicago or Los Angeles.
From Bosnia to Israel, women are sold for anything from $800 to $15,000, depending on the quality of the "product". A dissatisfied owner will often sell the woman to another owner, who then demands that she repay him the purchase price. Some traffickers break the women's will by bringing them in bunches to a "show murder" of a woman who refuses to work. East European Women Trapped In Sex Slavery 100,000's Of East European Women Sold For Sex Human Trafficking: Facts & Figures | TEAM
Sadly, there isn’t enough discussion of the real root of the problem — the men.
Human trafficking is basically international sexual terrorism perpetrated against women and children on a mass scale by men. It is their demand for illicit or predatory sex that generates huge profits for the slavers and leaves behind the tortured minds and broken bodies of those women and children they violate.
500,000 sex slaves, forced to have sex 12 times per day. that's 42 million sessions per week. germany only has 82 million ppl. assuming the avg customer goes once per week, every male (regardless of age) and a few million females would have to use the services of these sex slaves. is that happening? obviously not.
the simple fact of the matter is that NGO's who monitor human trafficking are often elaborate scams and the figures they produce are outright lies.
does sex slavery exist? yes. but it's not even 1% as big of a problem as these NGO's are making it out to be.
If only it was that easy, a lot of the places where the girls genuinly are underaged or forced slaves are run by organisations like the mafia.
If a perfectly innocent hard working guy just desperate to do what comes naturally, runs into one of these organisations and does not play by the rules, chances are its the guy who would end with every right to be scared and frightened.
Of course some men do deliberaly seek out theses sorts of places, and they are not going to zip it up and walk away.
whenever ive encountered obvious underage working girls i've always expressed my disgust. never had any problems w the "mafia"-style groups running these things. if anything they expect this sort of the response from westerners. it's the non-western males that are the problem when it comes to underage girls, since the same taboos against it don't exist in their cultures.
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