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I have spent many years living in a Spanish-speaking Central American country. My primary residence was in a town that attracted a lot of tourists from all over the world. The town was small (roughly 600 people) and largely based on small panga fishing and some agriculture. Only within the last few years did tourism become a major "industry" in my little town.
I cannot even count the number of people I encountered who were outright frustrated and sometimes angry that the cashier in the local supermarket did not speak any English. I always wondered it it ever occurred to these people that they were not in the US (or Canada, for that matter). Apparently, it didn't matter - everybody was supposed to speak English.
Now, I will say that I also encountered a french man who was utterly appalled that the same cashier did not speak any French. I have no idea why she would - but he was upset nonetheless. Since there were more English-speaking visitors than French-speaking ones, I obviously had a better chance to encounter entitled Americans (or Canadians - which wasn't alway clear).
BTW, I have not encountered any Germans act that way - I always had a feeling that they understood very well that they were abroad. I suppose it must have to do with Germans holding the number one position when it comes to international travel.
Alas, English is the language commonly used to bridge language barriers and it is quite reasonable to assume that younger generations in developed nations have some knowledge and/or that people in the tourism sector have some mastery. Apparently, though, that assumptions extends even to formerly undeveloped areas.
Closest thing on this thread to what I have personally observed out there in the big scary real world! It might not even be the majority of English-speaking people who do this (and many are indeed very respectful), but people who are English-speaking are almost the only ones you will regularly witness exhibiting this type of behaviour.
Besides the growing trend for English to be the de-facto global language, it is also true that Americans are the least traveled people in the world, for a number of reasons including the difficulty in getting sufficient time off work, the cost of crossing an ocean, the perceived general filthiness, stupidity, larceny and mean-spiritedness of all foreigners, and their brutal pig-headed sense of natural superiority, as well as systematically programmed to have a tangible fear of the unfamiliar.
Given that, the learning of a second language is naturally pretty low on the list of educational priorities for Americans, and if a person has neither the intention nor the stomach to ever travel beyond Nova Scotia, applying himself to other academic wheel-spinning probably actually is more rewarding.
However, for a person who does wish to travel, it would certainly pay off richly if he were to spend an hour with a five-dollar Berlitz Phrase Book while on the plane.
I think he meant foreigners in the US who don't speak English should get out. Luckily that type of xenophobe is rare.
Uh, you don't even live in the U.S. Those "foreigners" are illegal immigrants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus
On the other hand, in Belgium, i had some interesting conversations where I would speak english, get a response in French, I'd respond in English, they'd respond back in French....
this actually worked because I can understand some French, but I cannot speak any of it. I can see how this might've been rude on my part, but I found it sort of amusing nonetheless, because they could obviously understand my English but refused to speak it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vamos
Now, I will say that I also encountered a french man who was utterly appalled that the same cashier did not speak any French. I have no idea why she would - but he was upset nonetheless. Since there were more English-speaking visitors than French-speaking ones, I obviously had a better chance to encounter entitled Americans (or Canadians - which wasn't alway clear).
BTW, I have not encountered any Germans act that way - I always had a feeling that they understood very well that they were abroad. I suppose it must have to do with Germans holding the number one position when it comes to international travel.
Yeah, sounds like something a French person would do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
Doesn't this forum prove that lots of people in countries all over the world actually do know English well?
No. They found this forum because they speak English. They aren't just some random people. Anyway, it's not that important, though. Only if people will give you an attitude - then it's gonna be a problem.
I have spent many years living in a Spanish-speaking Central American country. My primary residence was in a town that attracted a lot of tourists from all over the world. The town was small (roughly 600 people) and largely based on small panga fishing and some agriculture. Only within the last few years did tourism become a major "industry" in my little town.
I cannot even count the number of people I encountered who were outright frustrated and sometimes angry that the cashier in the local supermarket did not speak any English. I always wondered it it ever occurred to these people that they were not in the US (or Canada, for that matter). Apparently, it didn't matter - everybody was supposed to speak English.
Now, I will say that I also encountered a french man who was utterly appalled that the same cashier did not speak any French. I have no idea why she would - but he was upset nonetheless. Since there were more English-speaking visitors than French-speaking ones, I obviously had a better chance to encounter entitled Americans (or Canadians - which wasn't alway clear).
BTW, I have not encountered any Germans act that way - I always had a feeling that they understood very well that they were abroad. I suppose it must have to do with Germans holding the number one position when it comes to international travel.
Alas, English is the language commonly used to bridge language barriers and it is quite reasonable to assume that younger generations in developed nations have some knowledge and/or that people in the tourism sector have some mastery. Apparently, though, that assumptions extends even to formerly undeveloped areas.
Germans in Germany, not abroad. And I am not necessarilly being critical.
Unlike British kids, which are soooooo nice. Especially when they're wasted.
Oh wait.
Neither are great, but you only have to listen to the chants from the football terraces to find out which country is relatively more enlightened in its attitudes.
I don't think Americans are more or less obtuse than any other nationality. I've found don't expect people to speak English. Having said that, English is one of main global languages.. so to expect to be able to find someone that can understand it, esp. in the tourist industry, is not entirely unreasonable. I've travelled to Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and always found someone that could help, but I learned some key phrases in the local lingo to be polite. However, if people asked where I was from I honestly answered Adelaide, Australia as that was my home at the time (dual national), so if I was rude.. I was added to the Australian bucket. LOL.
What I bolded, I heartly agree with as English is basically the language of business. I was surprised at how many Europeans do know the language,l but two stories of this very thing will never leave me. When in Belgrade, over 40% know English, but mainly those under 35. When I came across a bookseller on the street in 2006 who was my age and knew English, I was surprised and told him so. He replied that he HAD to learn English due to one man... and of course I asked WHO? And he replied "Bill Gates" as when the net first began, it was only in English! I never really thought of that, but I guess he was right.
But my other story which I think proves what you had said even more, is that I knew of a Frenchwoman who vacationed in Belgrade visiting friends and she met a Serbian man...well, it was almost love at first sight, but he didn't know French, and she didn't know Serbian. He knew German, but she didn't, BUT they discovered that they both knew some English and so began their courtship using that language And now they are married and living in Paris where he is trying to learn French, but they still communicate in English when needed, and both are getting more fluent in it.
I can see that learning this language does has its benefits, but it is totally ego-centric of Americans to expect people to know our language who are not in the tourist industry; but I think many do who are not real "travelers".
Even if students don't speak English well or travel, it is easy to recognize Americans (US Americans and Canadians). Maybe native English speakers don't realize that, but to any non-native speaker the sound of American English is very easy to detect, even if someone speaks little English.
I guess most Americans have no choice but to expect others to speak English, else they are lost. Who hasn't seen one of those chubby Americans wearing shorts and panda glasses, holding a map, looking around themselves as if they were on the moon
What are Panda glasses?
I know it is easy, in general, to recognize Americans for someone who has experience with this but most people here don't. Americans make up 12% of the tourists in Brazil, yet my students seem to see Americans everywhere they are not. Why? because every blond tourist with dork shorts who is actually German or English is thought to be an American.
I live in a very touristic town and I've never seen any serious language issue.
The last issue was when some English asked for "brown sauce".
Most tourists are very predictable after you see 100.000 of them, they always say the same things in their language.
If you know 500 words, that's more than enough for get your messsages in five languages.
Of course, few waiters know good English, German or whatever.
As to bothersome tourists, English and Americans are bothersome no matter how educated they are because they don't know how to walk, they take one step and stop in the middle of the street, stop traffic, a mess. Americans walk like an aircraft carrier, with cameras, belt straps, tennis shoes with white socks and they are rather heavy, pedestrians bump into them. I guess they are used to malls but not to medieval towns or cities.
Neither are great, but you only have to listen to the chants from the football terraces to find out which country is relatively more enlightened in its attitudes.
I don't know what kind of Spaniards you've been around to categorize them all in such a manner, maybe you got unlucky.
And if we are going to start talking about violent hooligans...
Neither are great, but you only have to listen to the chants from the football terraces to find out which country is relatively more enlightened in its attitudes.
-----
Benjamin
I feel (as a Catalan and as a Spanish) a lot of shame for the behaviour of the Hooligans of the Spanish selection. All that "Yo soy español, español, español" and all their Spanish flag waving makes me sick. They don't do that here in Catalonia.
As to racial slurs, the fact that the Spanish fans are less PC does not mean a thing. For example, saying "negro cabrón" is coloquial here and not an insult, while according to the Anglo Saxon culture is a tremendous insult.
Just as in Latin America, they used to scream to Romario that he was "un negro con el culo gordo" (a black with a fat ass) because he gained weight and that was considered funny. Different cultures.
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And now they are married and living in Paris where he is trying to learn French, but they still communicate in English when needed, and both are getting more fluent in it.
