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Old 05-14-2012, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Mount of Showing the Way
1,953 posts, read 2,212,969 times
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Things aren't so easy in the real world.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:08 PM
 
3,806 posts, read 5,515,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landondparks View Post
Antarctica is not a Country and has no year-round population. There people that live there during the "summer" (hahaha), mainly to do research - but that's it. Why would anyone want to live in Antarctica?
Stricly speaking a good chunk of Antarctica is claimed by one country or the other. However, the US and USSR signed a treaty saying they would not claim land there and would recognize no other nations claims there either. As most countries don't have claims they basically said that was a great idea so the few who do have been left out in the cold so to speak. Plus since no one wants to be the first country to allow mining or oil wells in Antarctica the claims aren't likely to be developed unilaterally any time soon.

Now that said there may not be anyone who stays year round, but then again there just might be. I know the US keeps a skeleton crew at McMurdo Station through the winter, and I think a few other nations and organization have at least one person on station year round even if it isn't the same person all year.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landondparks View Post
No country is easy to immigrate too, probably more-so for an American than many other nationalities. Residents who reside in a EU country can pretty much freely work, travel and live in many other countries in the EU, which is a lot of Europe.

I will say thought, for an American, there is one country that is FAIRLY easy. I say fairly, because it still requires a process and there is no guarantee it will work for everyone.

It's the Netherlands. Think Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Hauge, Holland, etc. Since 1951 they have had a treaty with the United States called the "Dutch American Friendship treaty". The treaty basically says that any American who meets some basic qualifiers (listed below) can move to Netherlands to start a business.

Basically, you must invest at least EUR 4,500 (about $5,800 dollars) in a self-employment enterprise in that country. You can also start a corporation there with a minimum investment of EUR 11,500 (about $15,000 dollars).

Most people go there based on the self-employment clause. Basically, it is very similar to their current Self-Employment visa for those outside of American, except that as an American you don't need to prove that business would benefit the Netherlands and you don't need a intent to stay visa (MMV).

However, you cannot go there to practice a profession such as Doctor, Lawyer, etc. The DAFT cannot be used for that - you would need to use the Highly Qualified Migrant visa. Basically, you can go there to start a consulting business, a website business, a cleaning service, etc. You of course can start a brick and motor store as well, probably even a "coffee shop :-)".

Basically, the steps are:
1) Go to Netherlands as a tourist. Americans do not need a Visa for stays up to 90 days.
2) Find a place to stay for a while - probably gonna be a hotel because you cannot really rent an apartment until you have a ID card. They have short-stay apartments though I guess.
3) FIRST THING - get Health Insurance. It's required for any other steps. You can use a company called OOM at General information-OOM Verzekeringen. Very cheap, like $50 a month for me.
4) Start your paperwork. I'm not going to go into detail beyond this, as it's well documented on the internet. I suggest visiting these sites to learn more about the process and the steps:

Dutch American Friendship Treaty

The Dutch American Friendship Treaty (DAFT|DAFTA)


Bottom line, it's probably the easiest way an American can move somewhere - unless you have a job offer. Trust me, job offers are not easy to come by either. In most EU nations, they have to prove they could not find anyone in any EU nation to do your job before hiring you. Good luck with that.

ALSO, while it won't get your immediate citizenship. You CAN become a citizen simply by residing in the country on your Temporary / Permanent residents card for 5 years (or marry a EU girl for 3 years) and you can apply to become a citizen of the Netherlands, which means you'll enjoy everything that comes with being a citizen of a EU country. You must, however, maintain your self employment for the entire 5 years. Your required to renew your Residence card every year, and you must show that your business is still active and your account still maintains 4,500 EUR to be able to stay.

About the Netherlands:
The Netherlands really is a great place. It's a mixed Capitalist/Socialist nation rules by a constitutional monarchy. What this means is that some areas of government are very socialistic, while much of the business is free trade / capitalism. Too bad American can't operate that way. You don't get FREE health care, but the insurance companies are limited to charging you a set price per month, and it cannot be higher than anyone else. Meaning they can't charge you more for having high blood pressure than they could a similar guy your age in perfect health. Insurance would cost probably less than $500 - $900 a year.

Look it up, you'll find that Netherlands is really neat. Plus, once you become a Resident, you can freely travel to any other EU country to work, play, whatever.

I WANT TO ADD: Please do not simply use the treaty as a way to get out of America and move to Netherlands. Only use it if you seriously want to start a business and run it from Netherlands, and where it will benefit the Netherlands in some way, at least by taxes. Don't do it simply as a means to immigrate there.
So it sounds like a person with enough cash could open a hotdog cart or the Dutch equivalent, hire some poor sucker to work there, work overseas after establishing their residency, fund the cart with that money (or even better it might make money too), and basically become a Dutch citizen while possibly not even ever spending much time in the Netherlands. The rub is the residency. To accomplish a really massive burn on the system you'd need to be able to leave once residency is established, or are they thorough enough that they require you to physically be in the Netherlands for all that time?
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:30 PM
 
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If you qualify for and are accepted into the French Foreign Legion, survive the training, and can stick it out for your contract (and survive that too) then yep you too can be French. It ain't easy, but providing you survive and aren't seriously wounded in service it might be one of the cheapest deals on immigration since you'll actually make money while doing it. A few other places, Australia and the UK, do something similar, but I don't think nationals of any country in the world can qualify as you can in the Legion.

If Israel recognizes you as being Jewish then they pretty much require that you be given citizenship if ask for it.

One person listed several of the Gulf states. While it is fairly easy to move to some of them, I think Bahrain is the only member of the GCC that allows immigration on a regular basis, and even that is pretty restricted. Basically you need to follow the same branch of Islam as the royal family and be willing to work in the security forces in order to have a shot. On the other hand if you're good friends with the king or emir of any of those countries he could make an exception for you if you can convince him since his word is law.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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for EU citizens its easy to move anywhere in EU as they dont need any work permits etc, and ofte dont even need passport.
for americans its not easy at all
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:39 PM
 
14 posts, read 104,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
So it sounds like a person with enough cash could open a hotdog cart or the Dutch equivalent, hire some poor sucker to work there, work overseas after establishing their residency, fund the cart with that money (or even better it might make money too), and basically become a Dutch citizen while possibly not even ever spending much time in the Netherlands. The rub is the residency. To accomplish a really massive burn on the system you'd need to be able to leave once residency is established, or are they thorough enough that they require you to physically be in the Netherlands for all that time?
It sounds that way - but it's not that easy. True, you can go there and setup a hot dog cart and hire a Dutch guy to run it. You can then go back to America and be happy go lucky with a Dutch Business. I'm not sure about this, but I think anyone can setup a Dutch business - DAFT or not. Where DAFT comes in handy is when you want to actually MOVE to Netherlands to run the business and eventually become a citizen.

Now. In order to gain dutch permanent residency and especially Citizenship - you must have lived in the Netherlands for all of the 5 year term. You cannot start a business there, move back to the US and then become a dutch citizen in 5 years. I'm not sure what classifies as "living there" - Probably meaning you spend MORE THAN 6 months of every year living in the country - but again, it could be more or less.

I also want to remind everyone - becoming a Dutch citizen will likely mean giving up your US Citizenship. That's not really the end of the world though, as even with a Dutch Passport you can come to American for 3 months at a time without a Visa for vacations, visit family, etc. Plus, if you give up US Citizenship, you won't be double-taxed by both Dutch and US Government. However, just remember that giving up US citizenship is not something you can reverse at a later date. You give it up - it's going to be just as hard for you to come back to America and live as it would be for any Dutch national - and working in America will be pretty much nill option once you give up citizenship. So, no, you could not become a Dutch citizen and then come back to America and work. NOW - rather you can become a Dutch Permanent Resident (and still maintain US Citizenship) and then come back an live in America I don't know. I'm not sure what the laws are on maintaining Dutch Permanent Residency - but I imagine you have to prove you actually have lived in the Netherlands to keep qualifying as a resident.

Last edited by landondparks; 05-14-2012 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:15 PM
 
14 posts, read 104,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrix542 View Post
for EU citizens its easy to move anywhere in EU as they dont need any work permits etc, and ofte dont even need passport.
for americans its not easy at all
Probably because most countries, especially EU countries, do not want Americans there who want to turn their country into another America. Most Europeans are happy in the way their country is ran and governed, and do not want the Americans running from liberalism to take over the majority of their country and turn it into a bible-thumping war zone.

I can't blame them. I think its goof that countries make it hard for Americans to get in. That way, only the Americans who are most dedicated can make it. Not only do you not have a bunch of new people invading your country, but the ones who do make it only completed the process because the LIKE the country and not to run from their own.

This is coming from an American seriously considering a move to Netherlands. Not so much to run from America as to set-up shop in a country that is not overtly ran by the bible. I want to and would love to support a country such as Netherlands.
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:48 PM
 
Location: The Downunderverse
600 posts, read 814,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
Stricly speaking a good chunk of Antarctica is claimed by one country or the other. However, the US and USSR signed a treaty saying they would not claim land there and would recognize no other nations claims there either. As most countries don't have claims they basically said that was a great idea so the few who do have been left out in the cold so to speak. Plus since no one wants to be the first country to allow mining or oil wells in Antarctica the claims aren't likely to be developed unilaterally any time soon.

Now that said there may not be anyone who stays year round, but then again there just might be. I know the US keeps a skeleton crew at McMurdo Station through the winter, and I think a few other nations and organization have at least one person on station year round even if it isn't the same person all year.
Actually Australia owns the largest chunk of Antarctica (its Australian territory rather than an actual part of Australia) and New Zealand owns the second largest chunk.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, Canada
3,721 posts, read 4,691,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landondparks View Post
Probably because most countries, especially EU countries, do not want Americans there who want to turn their country into another America. Most Europeans are happy in the way their country is ran and governed, and do not want the Americans running from liberalism to take over the majority of their country and turn it into a bible-thumping war zone.

I can't blame them. I think its goof that countries make it hard for Americans to get in. That way, only the Americans who are most dedicated can make it. Not only do you not have a bunch of new people invading your country, but the ones who do make it only completed the process because the LIKE the country and not to run from their own.

This is coming from an American seriously considering a move to Netherlands. Not so much to run from America as to set-up shop in a country that is not overtly ran by the bible. I want to and would love to support a country such as Netherlands.
hehe i agree and im European myself! lived here all my life.
but at the same time it is EXTREMELY hrd for EU citizen to get a green card too so it works both ways
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:35 PM
 
3,806 posts, read 5,515,269 times
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Originally Posted by Amunication View Post
Actually Australia owns the largest chunk of Antarctica (its Australian territory rather than an actual part of Australia) and New Zealand owns the second largest chunk.
Never said it didn't, but the only nations that regard those claims as legitimate are the other 5-10 countries who also claim land in Antarctica.
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