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Old 02-23-2012, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,971,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Countries that need rankings to prove how good there are; how far they have progressed; & etc. do not provide the best education. The USA turns out far more world-class entrepreneurs than the rest. Stats? Stats? We don't need no stinkin' stats! If you focus on the stats, then you will find countries that focus on the stats and teach to the stats.

Singapore is always held up as an example of an excellent education system, but having had Singaporean-taught students in my classes, I can say that they are not any better or worse than the run-of-the-mill schools elsewhere. The Chinese (aka Singaporean) system favours rote memorisation and teaching towards the exams. Of course they get high exam marks; many students take hours of after-school tuition in exam preparation. I never met a USA student who studied for exams as much as Chinese students.

But, at the end of the day, companies want people with pleasant personalities, who can get along with colleagues and customers, and come up with creative ideas. Those exam-based schooling systems are very devoid in the development of creativity. And we're not talking about adding classes in creativity; creativity and problem-solving skills are learned on the playgrounds and backyards where kids are allowed to be kids and work things out for themselves.

Said 'Teak', who has taught in Asia for 17 years.
Concerning rote memorization - every field of learning that I can think of right now requires a lot of this activity and digestion of findings from the past before a person can really enjoy the field and be creative in it. Our system seems to want to entertain students to keep their attention. That will only take you so far. I think, especially in high school and the beginning of college, rote memory probably must be the way to go. I know this tends to stifle creativity, but this is the value of a great teacher - getting all the factual information in those brains without squashing creativity.

I think high school teachers have a much harder job than professors in college.

 
Old 02-23-2012, 06:09 AM
 
1,733 posts, read 1,822,243 times
Reputation: 1135
Quote:
Originally Posted by namegoeshere View Post
That isn't true. Science and research have been international for many years, and as the (currently) undisputed universal language, English is the lingua franca of science. A scienctist who doesn't know English - and not only "general" English, but the specific English terminology in his field of study as well - is useless. He isn't able to read results from other countries, isn't able to discuss with scientist from other countries, and so forth.

So it isn't a waste of time to have courses in English, but indeed extremely important - in fact, in a lot of non-English-speaking countries in Europe, Master's lectures in (natural) sciences are held almost exclusively in English.
True. Also, the textbooks are almost exclusivly in English for most countries. Very few countries actually have a large enough student base every year to make translations economically viable. If you can't speak english at all, you might as well not bother.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
You miss the point. Try doing just some basically advanced math in the foreign language you have learned. Then let me know just how frustrating that can be. Or better yet ask a master mathematician if it would be practical to solve math problems in any language except your own native language.
I found it to be much the same. Once you can think in a foreign language, theres no appreciable difference, at least as far as I went in maths. (Engineering masters, mostly pre-computers in studying)
 
Old 02-23-2012, 06:20 AM
 
Location: World
4,204 posts, read 4,689,076 times
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India
 
Old 02-23-2012, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,112 posts, read 29,581,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munna21977 View Post
India
 
Old 02-23-2012, 03:45 PM
 
3,786 posts, read 5,327,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Concerning rote memorization - every field of learning that I can think of right now requires a lot of this activity and digestion of findings from the past before a person can really enjoy the field and be creative in it. Our system seems to want to entertain students to keep their attention. That will only take you so far. I think, especially in high school and the beginning of college, rote memory probably must be the way to go. I know this tends to stifle creativity, but this is the value of a great teacher - getting all the factual information in those brains without squashing creativity.

I think high school teachers have a much harder job than professors in college.
Yes, 'tis true, that one must learn a certain set of information about a field and it may take rote memorization, but as you say a good teacher can put it into a format that makes it easier. For example, my students have to learn a lot of theory, but I help them by giving example calculations to do. They enjoy "crunching" numbers on the calculator and it helps to make theory understandable.

Unfortunately, curriculum writers where I teach want to cram as much theory into the curriculum, to make it seem substantial, when in effect, most gets glossed over with little to no application. I would prefer a smaller theory set, with more application.

For example, students have to be taught two methods to calculate the volumetric flow rate in a river. The parent body loves to test them on the difference between these two methods. Why? Why not teach them one method, and then give them an outdoor exercise in making the distance, depth, and velocity measurements required by that method? The students remember motor activity much better than dull, dry theory.

What I have found in Asia, is that form is much more important than content. In fact, you can forget about content in many cases. That the curriculum looks substantial is more important than the students actually being able to do something useful in a work setting. And that is what this topic is about: Asian schools making themselves LOOK good; they focus on the rankings, not the education.
 
Old 02-23-2012, 07:40 PM
 
Location: World
4,204 posts, read 4,689,076 times
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Atleast it is competitive and universities are not money minting corporations. will never see any university student in india with student loan and will never see any student in USA without student loan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
 
Old 02-23-2012, 08:21 PM
 
2,223 posts, read 5,486,709 times
Reputation: 2081
How's "entrepreneurs" an indicator for a good education system ? It's not.

I've met many students from Europe. They all were much better at sciences and math. Dosen't matter much to me, though, cause I hated it and it cut me some slack.
Makes me wonder why Indians or whoever would want to come to the U.S. and shell out 15k a year in tuition alone. That's at least 30k for everything. They have a much lower average income. 30k in India must be like 300k in the U.S. India is poor, but not as poor as Africa. They should provide good enough education.
 
Old 02-23-2012, 08:27 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,441,759 times
Reputation: 3899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
How's "entrepreneurs" an indicator for a good education system ? It's not.
Confusing "education" with "having an entrepreneurial spirit" - in my Top 5 list of pet-peeves.
How in the world can these two be equated is beyond me.
 
Old 02-24-2012, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,279,876 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
Well, seeing as everyone around the world wants to come to USA to study...
That may have been true in the past, but not so much any more.
We're lagging behind in the sciences.

I believe the US ranks 33rd.
Educational Score Performance - Country Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
Yeah, I agree. Maybe if our high schools raped us like the universities did, they'd be top notch too
I'd appreciate it if you'd quit bandying about the word rape.
It's got a definition that certainly doesn't fit your usage and minimized those who have actually been raped.
I find it very offendive and unnecessary.

Maybe if you or one of your close family members were, you'd understand the implications of minimizing that word.
 
Old 02-24-2012, 02:12 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,279,876 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by hadrett32 View Post
The cliché that Turkey is European comes from Western liberalists and leftists. Most of Turkey is still more Middle Eastern and Western Asian than Europe regarding lifestyle, culture, religion, nature, people etc.
Excellent, I guess everything boils down to politics for some.
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