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I was just thinking: "I bet I see Bush within the first page of this discussion...." and voila .... Predictable.
Look, I don't like Bush myself largely because of his weakness on protecting our border and his stand on illegal immigration. But putting him on the level of Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc...?!
Quote:
Bush is an idiot
I've always marvelled at how people who hate Bush, keep on calling him "dumb, stupid, an idiot". And they couldn't beat him in 2 elections.
Me, I would say he's wrong on a bunch of things, but is certainly not dumb or an idiot.
Why are people posting Pres. Bush? Really now, come on..
He is the leader of the free world, not some communist country as some of you want to so desprately wish.. Clearly, some of y'all have lost the sense of good and evil, and just because there are people dying in Iraq, you automatically say that Bush is one of the "worst leaders".
Nevertheless, his Iraq policy, the purposes of which are dubious, has led to the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and this is very serious business regardless of whether this has not been his intention (and I don't believe it has).
Let's not forget that there's also the other "foreign forces" like the Iranians, Syrians, Al Queda, etc... that are creating havoc and assisting in the bombing of Iraqi civilians all over the place.
Ask the Kurds up north whether they're complaining about Iraq policy. If you go beyond what's being reported in media, you'll realize that 2/3 of Iraq is in better shape and maybe 1/3 still has problems.
Think about this: If the US and its allies put down their guns and left, Iraq will turn into chaos. Even the Iraqis think so. If the Iranians, the Syrians and Al Queda put down their guns and and left,...
do you think we can finish building all those schools, hospitals and the other infrastructure than Iraq needs?
To me, its ironic that our next door neighbors and friends from Iran (they prefer to be called Persians, not Iranians) and
Iraq think highly of Pres. Bush and his policies while maybe 50% of Americans are for the other side. Go figure?!
History will be the judge. We may know 40 years down the road whether it was the right move.
Quote:
Don't forget the Little Creeper of Iran, AMadDinnerJacket....he may not have proved to be YET, but fear he will become one on the order of Hitler/Stalin in our near future, etc...
The funniest pronounciation I heard was: "If you can't pronounce it, just think: I'M-IN-A-JIHAD!" And it does sound very close.
First you must identify what you mean by worst. There are a number of different criteria on which to make a judgment.
Most Cruel: Prince Dracula (Transylvania)
Most Murderous: Tied Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao
Worst Leadership Abilities: Petain (President of France in WWII)
Worst Tactical Decision Ever: Hitler (Attack on Russia, while simultaneously declaring war on the U.S. Essentially sandwiched himself between the two. It is arguable that he could have won the war without this blunder).
These are only a few different criteria...there are hundreds of different categories...
I was just thinking: "I bet I see Bush within the first page of this discussion...." and voila .... Predictable.
Look, I don't like Bush myself largely because of his weakness on protecting our border and his stand on illegal immigration. But putting him on the level of Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc...?!
I've always marvelled at how people who hate Bush, keep on calling him "dumb, stupid, an idiot". And they couldn't beat him in 2 elections.
Me, I would say he's wrong on a bunch of things, but is certainly not dumb or an idiot.
Let's not forget that there's also the other "foreign forces" like the Iranians, Syrians, Al Queda, etc... that are creating havoc and assisting in the bombing of Iraqi civilians all over the place.
Ask the Kurds up north whether they're complaining about Iraq policy. If you go beyond what's being reported in media, you'll realize that 2/3 of Iraq is in better shape and maybe 1/3 still has problems.
Think about this: If the US and its allies put down their guns and left, Iraq will turn into chaos. Even the Iraqis think so. If the Iranians, the Syrians and Al Queda put down their guns and and left,...
do you think we can finish building all those schools, hospitals and the other infrastructure than Iraq needs?
To me, its ironic that our next door neighbors and friends from Iran (they prefer to be called Persians, not Iranians) and
Iraq think highly of Pres. Bush and his policies while maybe 50% of Americans are for the other side. Go figure?!
History will be the judge. We may know 40 years down the road whether it was the right move.
Very good points.
I was going to challenge each "Bush is the worst leader" post but I figured I might as well let the irrational, Bush-bashers have their fun. They will end up looking even more ridiculous.
I'm going to go with Karl Marx for inspiring the Soviet and Chinese savagery against billions over the past 100 years.
Not a leader you say? Oh I disagree. Politicians are merely actors, philosophers write their scripts. Stalin and Mao were clearly not Marxists in the truest sense of the word, they were power hungry sadistic ego-maniacs that would have used any philosophy or belief system to rise to power.
Reminds me of Christianity - a decent belief system taken and used by corrupt men to impose their will upon others and aggrandize themselves.
On the other hand I believe greatness is to be admired and mediocrity despised. Hitler accomplished great things, much more than 99.99% of the rest of humanity ever will. So did Stalin, so did Mao. Admire the deed for its objective greatness. Morality is a separate issue entirely and one that is highly malleable depending on the time and place in which the deed is judged.
Hitler accomplished great things, much more than 99.99% of the rest of humanity ever will. So did Stalin, so did Mao. Admire the deed for its objective greatness. Morality is a separate issue entirely and one that is highly malleable depending on the time and place in which the deed is judged.
We shoud all consider ourselves fortunate that more aren't so "great".
We shoud all consider ourselves fortunate that more aren't so "great".
Stalin and Mao are still revered by over 1 billion people.
The only reason Hitler isn't is because the allies won the war.
Andrew Jackson is highly regarded and he committed genocide against the Native Americans. He's on the 20 dollar bill for Pete's sake.
Hitler would be on the detschmark (not the Euro, though the Deutschmark might be Europe's defacto currency) and revered by billions had Germany won the war.
As I say, greatness can be determined objectively. Morality and "right and wrong" are subjective determinations based on the popular beliefs of the day.
Ever read the Old Testament of the Bible? How about the parts where the Jews exterminate every man, woman, and child of their enemies then attempt to erase their names from history forever? The Jews are great people, very strong, very unified. Greatness knows no such thing as morality.
Stalin and Mao are still revered by over 1 billion people.
The only reason Hitler isn't is because the allies won the war.
Andrew Jackson is highly regarded and he committed genocide against the Native Americans. He's on the 20 dollar bill for Pete's sake.
Hitler would be on the detschmark (not the Euro, though the Deutschmark might be Europe's defacto currency) and revered by billions had Germany won the war.
As I say, greatness can be determined objectively. Morality and "right and wrong" are subjective determinations based on the popular beliefs of the day.
Ever read the Old Testament of the Bible? How about the parts where the Jews exterminate every man, woman, and child of their enemies then attempt to erase their names from history forever? The Jews are great people, very strong, very unified. Greatness knows no such thing as morality.
When did I ever justify the actions of any of the individuals you mentioned? Or claimed that I believed in the Old testament?
Well, "W" is neither intelligent, trustworthy (the lies that got us in Iran to begin with) nor eloquent, but, is not even in the same league as Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, of course, Chairman Mao purged untold legions of his own populace, but, he did bring about stability - as long as you agreed with him your head would stay stable(y) on your shoulders- D
Sorry for the mistakes, that may occure, I'm from "funny" country Kazakhstan, where "Glorious nation" is living.
I migrate to the USA about 8 years ago.
A few answers surprised me, when somebody is talking about Bush as the worst leader.
Another thing - about Stalin.
First, about Bush.
If consider his political movements toward Iraq like the worst leadership, I quite disagree...
I also member of kazakhstanian forum, and when topic was about Bush's politic movements, I asked them, what they would do, if some airplanes start to crash into Kremlin or Red sqaire, for example? What kind of political decision Putin would make? Would not take any action? Would do the economic block for some country? But for which one exactly? Iraq? Iran? Saudi Arabia? Aphganistan? Unfortunately, nobody could answer those questions. But I guess, they start to think about it...
At the time of the terrorist attack on the USA, there were big interests of Russia in the Iraqi oil and Saddams power, what why they were so against millitary action. Russia is not small country and has its own interests in different parts of the world. What I consider good - they'd stay nuetural and didn't support other side (Saddam) on the political end, after the war began.
Maybe Bush is not the most popular guy in the world, but he doesn't has to be. He did, what he did for the better good of the american nation.
Think about it. How dare those terrorists received education in the USA and then preform their unspeakable action on territory of the country, which gave them knowledge for the good? Why they didn't studied it in their homeland? What the purpose of their action? Tell to the world that they are "heroes" and fighting american ideology about democracy spreading all around the world? Or tell the world that only "Allah is a true god" and everybody else is enemies? Then why they didn't start with China for example? Or Italy? What so wrong with the States, that they hate this country so much? Perhaps, because it is real treat to their power like countries based on the muslim goverment and ideology? Or, perhaps, it is oil games, who is richer and can dictate their rules to the world on the oil market?
Sorry, I do prefer walk with the open face, have one man and be his the only one woman, have ability to drive a car and be part of the conversation, when man is speaking. Even so - these examples are parts of the Middle East culture and traditions. But I'm off topic... sorry.
Anyway, my point is, I would say, it is not objective to put Bush like the worst leader.
Now Stalin... Yes, a paranoid idiot, who received great power over the vast territory, without any knowledge how to use this power for the good of his own people correctly. But before Stalin, was Lenin aka Vladimir Il'ich Ul'yanov, who put Russia into revolution. Great orator (can compare only with Hitler), smart ass lawer, intellect twice as much... What exactly put him on his path to actually became a leader of the revolution? Theory of the Marx? Nope. Marx was just a writer, he didn't screamed about "Kill the rich!" He was writing his theoretical work about spiral evolution of the societies.
Mr. Ul'yanov took it seriously and decided to apply theory on practice. But he missed three pieces from the theory - capitalism, imperialism and socialism. He decided to jump straight up into communism. He was so pissed, that his older brother was hanged for the assasin action on the tsar', he was so pissed that tsar's power was weak and was anable to made political choises without church, that his path took the way of personal vendetta to the tsar's family with wonderful tool of "brain wash" to the mass. Promises of the future society without crime and without using monney for the goods, everybody is happy, everything is free, everybody is love each other and all "riches" are evil, join the communistic party, but... if you want your "goodies", you have to kill without mersy your enemy - kill burzhua and capitalists, kill tsars family and destroyed the churches. So...
It was revolution, mostly like civil war, I would say, because brother will kill his brother, father will kill his son, etc. Bloody mess. Revolution sucsed for the "communists", who in their biger mass just didn't know what the hell it is.
Then, to hold that power, Stalin put in work reppression, brain wash, and so on. Became a leader, Stalin understood very well, that power is "sweet candy", especially if there is no treat to it from the people who understood what happened and tryied to change the things. Fear to loose the power lead Stalin to the mass arests of intellegence, killing them, sending them to Sibiria. He wasn't alone in his actions, there was Beriya - head of KGB.
Was he the worst leader?
Yep. One of them.
My list:
Lenin (aka Ul'yanov, who was driven by vendetta), Hitler (who had mental illness and obssesions), Stalin (just uneducated politic, with hidden paranoja to be killed), Beriya (who was tree cutter and later used his skills on the people), Saddam (who had big ass ego and show his finger to the world ), bin Laden (brain washer and I suppose has maniacal disorder) and KKK, whoever they are.
Sure there could be much longer list, but I'm talking about whom I know and dislike their way of running the leadership. But it is all historical, and what is different it would make right now? I, for example, dislike Putin and Nazarbaev and Bush all together now (even at the same time it is so fun to see their speeches and facial expressions), but to tell that they are murderers and worst leaders in the big political scale like others - no. They are not the worst.
My regards to all,
and nice to meet you.
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Worst Leader
