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Old 04-09-2012, 05:15 AM
 
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I thing "Western" Countries not is only teritory. Japan,Australia,New Zealand is so "Western" Countries.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:34 AM
 
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All of Europe and the Americas, and Australia and New Zealand.

Also, places like South Africa can also fit.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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It depends on the context. I would say:

Definitely Western: Western Europe, the Americas, Australia, New Zealand
Usually considered Western: Europe (West & East), the Americas, Australia, New Zealand
Sometimes considered Western: ^ + South Africa
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:38 AM
 
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The Carolingian Empire was the Holy Roman Empire, a reedition of the Roman Empire but manned by the Franks. Their capital was Aachen, Germany. Their culture was Classical, their cultured language was Latin. Charlemagne surrounded himself by saviours and tried to recuperate Western Europe from the dark ages by gathering all the culture of the Roman Empire.

The Carolingian Empire was then a continuation of the Roman Empire, but integrating Germanics and reorganizing the empire using the FEUDAL SYSTEM, already existent at the end of the Roman Empire.

The Carolingian Empire was not "French", but FRANK and Germanic, since Carolingian invaded and dominated the part of Germania not part of the Roman Empire (Rhine to Elba).

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Old 04-09-2012, 12:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
America (from Canada to Argentina), Western Europe (make a north-south line along the eastern border of Germany and stretch it to cover all the European latitudes; everything to the west of that line I consider Western Europe) , Australia and New Zealand.

There are islands of the West in the other places, but only in the places I mentioned does it extends through most of the territory.
You are weird
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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For me, the West has to do with the Christian religion and, by extension, with European influence. So the West is Europe (nowadays it definitely includes Russia and Western Europe), USA, Canada, Latin America, Australia and New Zealand.
But I notice that sometimes, and especially when used by people from the USA, the West is meant to exclude Latin America. Like when they say "Latin American 'PRO-west' and 'ANTI-west' governments", as if we were outside the West. Here in Argentina, and in Spanish, the equivalent term for West is "Occidente", and whenever we use that term, we use it to include ourselves and the rest of Latin America in it, as opposed to, say, Muslims, Chinese, Japanese, and some African cultures.

BTW, I don't consider Japan a part of the West.

What I see is that some people in the first world use the term "West" as a synonym of "First-World" or "rich", which I think it isn't. But then it's a question of usage.
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:20 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
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In my view, I see only tangential connection between Christianity and the so-called west. Christianity is an eastern Mediterranean religion, like Judaism and Islam, and whose original languages are Aramaic, Syriac, Coptic, and Greek, the latter also the official language of at least half the Roman Empire, along with dozens of non-official languages, it really has little to do, in its origins, with places like the former Gaul and Germania and the Germanics. Furthermore, I would hardly call contemporary Europe Christian, and there is no mention of Christianity in EU institutions (both go for the US for that matter).

And actually this is the greatest thing to happen to Christianity since Constantine the Great.

The emergence of the "west" as a civilization starts with the Germanic invasions of the Roman Empire's western provinces, of lesser importance anyway Empire-wide, and the entry of the Germanics - who have about as much to do with Christianity as the Turks do with Islam - into the historical limelight, despite its early centuries being called the dark ages, an epithet which more reflects the dull prejudices of so-called renaissance and earlty modern scholars than it does the noteworthy achievements of the time.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanfel View Post
But I notice that sometimes, and especially when used by people from the USA, the West is meant to exclude Latin America. Like when they say "Latin American 'PRO-west' and 'ANTI-west' governments", as if we were outside the West. Here in Argentina, and in Spanish, the equivalent term for West is "Occidente", and whenever we use that term, we use it to include ourselves and the rest of Latin America in it, as opposed to, say, Muslims, Chinese, Japanese, and some African cultures.

BTW, I don't consider Japan a part of the West.

What I see is that some people in the first world use the term "West" as a synonym of "First-World" or "rich", which I think it isn't. But then it's a question of usage.
Excluding Latin America and including Japan seems to me like someone is obviously using "Western" as you say, merely a synonym of "First-World" or "rich", and not much else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
In my view, I see only tangential connection between Christianity and the so-called west. Christianity is an eastern Mediterranean religion, like Judaism and Islam, and whose original languages are Aramaic, Syriac, Coptic, and Greek, the latter also the official language of at least half the Roman Empire, along with dozens of non-official languages, it really has little to do, in its origins, with places like the former Gaul and Germania and the Germanics. Furthermore, I would hardly call contemporary Europe Christian, and there is no mention of Christianity in EU institutions (both go for the US for that matter).

And actually this is the greatest thing to happen to Christianity since Constantine the Great.

The emergence of the "west" as a civilization starts with the Germanic invasions of the Roman Empire's western provinces, of lesser importance anyway Empire-wide, and the entry of the Germanics - who have about as much to do with Christianity as the Turks do with Islam - into the historical limelight, despite its early centuries being called the dark ages, an epithet which more reflects the dull prejudices of so-called renaissance and earlty modern scholars than it does the noteworthy achievements of the time.
I'm definitely aware that contemporary Europe isn't and that for quite some time now, the demographic make up of Christians in the world hasn't been dominated by European nations and in fact, it is now many non-western nations that are fueling more new Christian growth (eg. those in Africa and to a degree in Asia). In a way, it seems ironically to have come full circle, as I've read somewhere that for quite a long while in the early days of Christianity, even in the middle ages prior to the rise of Islam in the Middle East and North Africa, the Christian population outside of Europe was larger than that in it.

It seems many are excluding Slavic eastern Europe and even southeastern European countries as "western" so it seems the countries in the east that stuck with the Byzantines seem to be seen less often as western than those that were heirs to the Western Roman empire.

It also kind of seems like there was an association of western civilization with the countries that are with western Christendom (after the east-west schism) rather than the eastern Orthodox Christendom.

Then of course, most people still pay homage to Greece, Rome and the Mediterranean world of Classical Antiquity in general when "Western civilization" is brought up, if not "Western countries" nowadays, so ideas about what is "western" in general is complicated.

Also, it's interesting that the Anglosphere now takes the spotlight for the western world (most people will definitely have the US, UK and even Canada, Australia, New Zealand pop up on their mind's radar when modern western nations are brought up, more than say, Austria or Greece even).

I've found it really interesting how the center of attention for powers seen as "in the west" as a "civilization" in world history seems to have shifted westward in history from the early empires of the Bronze Age Middle East of the early Biblical World (when the Hebrews were writing the old Testament and much of western Europe was dense, virgin forest) to the eastern Mediterranean and Greco-Roman classical world, to continental Europe in general in the Middle Ages, to then western Europe and its colonies (eg. those of France, Spain etc.) in the Age of Discovery and later on in the late modern period, the British and their Empire, and from the turn of the 20th century and, past the two world wars, to the United States.

Last edited by Stumbler.; 04-09-2012 at 08:26 PM..
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:36 PM
 
81 posts, read 237,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanfel View Post
For me, the West has to do with the Christian religion and, by extension, with European influence. So the West is Europe (nowadays it definitely includes Russia and Western Europe), USA, Canada, Latin America, Australia and New Zealand.
But I notice that sometimes, and especially when used by people from the USA, the West is meant to exclude Latin America. Like when they say "Latin American 'PRO-west' and 'ANTI-west' governments", as if we were outside the West. Here in Argentina, and in Spanish, the equivalent term for West is "Occidente", and whenever we use that term, we use it to include ourselves and the rest of Latin America in it, as opposed to, say, Muslims, Chinese, Japanese, and some African cultures.

BTW, I don't consider Japan a part of the West.

What I see is that some people in the first world use the term "West" as a synonym of "First-World" or "rich", which I think it isn't. But then it's a question of usage.
I think exactly the same way you do....the term western is often used to represent only the powerful economies of the west, as opposed to countries that relate to the term in all aspects, such as political, cultural and religious.
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Old 04-10-2012, 02:28 AM
 
202 posts, read 568,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
In my view, I see only tangential connection between Christianity and the so-called west. Christianity is an eastern Mediterranean religion, like Judaism and Islam, and whose original languages are Aramaic, Syriac, Coptic, and Greek, the latter also the official language of at least half the Roman Empire, along with dozens of non-official languages, it really has little to do, in its origins, with places like the former Gaul and Germania and the Germanics. Furthermore, I would hardly call contemporary Europe Christian, and there is no mention of Christianity in EU institutions (both go for the US for that matter).

And actually this is the greatest thing to happen to Christianity since Constantine the Great.

The emergence of the "west" as a civilization starts with the Germanic invasions of the Roman Empire's western provinces, of lesser importance anyway Empire-wide, and the entry of the Germanics - who have about as much to do with Christianity as the Turks do with Islam - into the historical limelight, despite its early centuries being called the dark ages, an epithet which more reflects the dull prejudices of so-called renaissance and earlty modern scholars than it does the noteworthy achievements of the time.
-----

The Dark Ages, from 476 to 1492 was for real, not a prejudice of the Renaissance. Christianity was the only sign of civilization at those times.

During Constantine, Christianity became the only Religion, "One Empire, One Emperor (there were four at that time) and ONE GOD.

Many barbarians were Christians, such as Visigoths. Others became Christians readely. Gaul and Germania (Roman Germania) were part of the empire and important.

The WEST started when the ROMAN EMPIRE was divided between WESTERN and EASTERN EMPIRES.

Germanic invasions had no cultural impact or political whatsoever, they just put an end to an empire (western roman empire) that was already dead. But in fact, Germanics did not want to destroy the empire or their culture, they just want wanted shelter and richer lands to settle. In fact, Barbarians in many respectes were better Romans since they cherished everything Roman and had the virtues of republican Romans.
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