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Old 04-26-2012, 06:19 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,308 posts, read 108,445,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
White South Africans could be considered 'Westerners', but South Africa is an interesting case. It's still a predominantly native (by population) country with a minority of whites, but the white population is still substantial and has been there for over 400 years, so in that sense parts of it resemble nations like the United States or Australia, being settlement colonies that turned into nation. And then you had Apartheid, which complicated things further.
I agree, S. Africa is a very interesting case. Back in the day (ahem), the White population was 10%. Since then, it has shrunk. That's not my definition of substantial, but as far as religion goes, that 10% has had an influence that stretched beyond their numbers. What we don't know is how much of the rest of the population considers itself part of the (Judeo-)Christian tradition, but it's probably a sizeable chunk, if Bishop D. Tutu has anything to say about it. Still, whether that constitutes a majority, we don't know. And then there are some citizens who participate both in the traditional spiritual practices, and in Christianity as well.

Very interesting case. But then, whether or not the Judeo-Christian tradition criterion should be what determines "Western" status can be questioned, too. Russia is Judeo-Christian (well, at least the Russian and Ukrainian population is), but personally, I wouldn't call it Western.

I'd be curious to put it up to a vote of the people of South Africa and Zimbabwe, as to whether or not they consider themselves "Western". And what their own definition of "Western" would be.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:38 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,204,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I agree, S. Africa is a very interesting case. Back in the day (ahem), the White population was 10%. Since then, it has shrunk. That's not my definition of substantial, but as far as religion goes, that 10% has had an influence that stretched beyond their numbers. What we don't know is how much of the rest of the population considers itself part of the (Judeo-)Christian tradition, but it's probably a sizeable chunk, if Bishop D. Tutu has anything to say about it. Still, whether that constitutes a majority, we don't know. And then there are some citizens who participate both in the traditional spiritual practices, and in Christianity as well.

Very interesting case. But then, whether or not the Judeo-Christian tradition criterion should be what determines "Western" status can be questioned, too. Russia is Judeo-Christian (well, at least the Russian and Ukrainian population is), but personally, I wouldn't call it Western.

I'd be curious to put it up to a vote of the people of South Africa and Zimbabwe, as to whether or not they consider themselves "Western". And what their own definition of "Western" would be.
If you're talking about religion, than most of sub-Saharan Africa is Christian. In fact, real Christianity is growing at a faster rate and is probably more zealous here than anywhere else.

You'd also of course have to include the entire Christian world - Latin America, Eastern Europe, Russia, the Philippines etc.

In a cultural sense I do see Russian as Western since it's mostly European derived.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:12 PM
 
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North America
South America
Europe
Australia, New Zealand and any American/European influenced/held islands in the South Pacific
Antarctica (I guess penguins could be Western)
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:31 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
If you're talking about religion, than most of sub-Saharan Africa is Christian. In fact, real Christianity is growing at a faster rate and is probably more zealous here than anywhere else.

You'd also of course have to include the entire Christian world - Latin America, Eastern Europe, Russia, the Philippines etc.

In a cultural sense I do see Russian as Western since it's mostly European derived.
I think some of this is debatable. Russia is only as Christian as the percentage of Russians in the population. If that's over 50%, then I guess you could call the whole country Christian. I'm splitting hairs, but that's the interesting part. So, does South Africa consider itself a Christian nation, then? Is Sub-Saharan Africa's Christian status a holdover from colonization? How many people actually go to church or believe in the divinity of Jesus?
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:15 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,204,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I think some of this is debatable. Russia is only as Christian as the percentage of Russians in the population. If that's over 50%, then I guess you could call the whole country Christian. I'm splitting hairs, but that's the interesting part. So, does South Africa consider itself a Christian nation, then? Is Sub-Saharan Africa's Christian status a holdover from colonization? How many people actually go to church or believe in the divinity of Jesus?
Not sure about stats, but I'm willing to bet higher than culturally Christian nations like Germany or Denmark.
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:22 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,664 posts, read 16,088,959 times
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WESTERN WORLD, 2012

Northern America:
Canada
United States of America
Bermuda
The Bahamas
Cayman Islands
Virgin Islands

Western Europe:
Greenland
Iceland
Faroe Islands
Norway
Denmark
Sweden
Finland
Ireland
Isle of Man
United Kingdom
Guernsey
Jersey
Netherlands
Belgium
Luxembourg
Germany
France
Switzerland
Austria
Liechtenstein
Portugal
Spain
Gibraltar
Andorra
Italy
San Marino
Malta

Oceania:
Australia
New Zealand
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Toronto
3,295 posts, read 7,032,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Is Sub-Saharan Africa's Christian status a holdover from colonization?
Depending on what boundaries you consider to contain Sub-Saharan Africa, if they qualify, the Orthodox Christians in the Abyssinia area are some of the oldest communities of Christians. That region/area of northeast Africa (Eritrea, Ethiopia etc.) as well as Egypt (where the Coptic Christians today are a minority now) was one of the first places to convert to the religion in the 4th century, long before many parts of Europe. Ethiopia was Christianized before Rome even was. But outside of that area, there weren't really any major numbers of Christians in Sub-Saharan Africa before European colonial contact.

However, the overwhelmingly vast majority of the few hundred million Christians in terms of numbers in sub-Saharan Africa itself come from converts within the last hundred years or so. Many new kinds of denominations, even syncretisms have either taken root or developed from the faiths spread by the missionaries of the 19th century, and continuing to today (both missionaries from other places and from Africans themselves spreading Christianity).

Last edited by Stumbler.; 04-27-2012 at 03:16 PM..
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