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Old 04-25-2012, 11:43 AM
 
295 posts, read 1,156,603 times
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Spain is not family oriented at all, and has one of the lowest birth rates in Europe
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,915 posts, read 87,471,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Again, the number of kids is a good indicator, after all, what else is left of family-orientation without the willingness to have kids
I dare to disagree. Religion or willingness to have kids/number of kids do not necessary means being family oriented.
I think family oriented countries are those where government policies and workplace policies make it possible for employees to more easily balance family and work, and to fulfill both their family and work obligations. Countries with laws, regulations, and social policies that recognize the importance of families to society, and act to meet, directly or indirectly, the needs of children, parents, disabled family members, and the oldest generation.
Workplaces that provide: onsite day care, flexible work time, work from home, maternity/paternity leave, family healthcare ( on site health and fitness, nutrition programs ), allow people to bring their children to the workplace from time to time when necessary etc.
Family friendly governments that are: mandating that businesses implement family-friendly policies, provide family friendly health insurance plan for all family members, give tax breaks for businesses providing the above, funding supporting programs ( abuse, literacy, elder care etc.), funding family-oriented public facilities ( parks, bike trails, playgrounds, swimming pools )
All that to allow families to spend more quality time with their children, reduce stress, allow families to exercise more control over their lives, promote family oriented society.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Turku, Finland
317 posts, read 413,379 times
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Running staggering national debts to pass on to later generations is "family orientated"?
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,784,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
I dare to disagree. Religion or willingness to have kids/number of kids do not necessary means being family oriented.
I think family oriented countries are those where government policies and workplace policies make it possible for employees to more easily balance family and work, and to fulfill both their family and work obligations. Countries with laws, regulations, and social policies that recognize the importance of families to society, and act to meet, directly or indirectly, the needs of children, parents, disabled family members, and the oldest generation.
Workplaces that provide: onsite day care, flexible work time, work from home, maternity/paternity leave, family healthcare ( on site health and fitness, nutrition programs ), allow people to bring their children to the workplace from time to time when necessary etc.
Family friendly governments that are: mandating that businesses implement family-friendly policies, provide family friendly health insurance plan for all family members, give tax breaks for businesses providing the above, funding supporting programs ( abuse, literacy, elder care etc.), funding family-oriented public facilities ( parks, bike trails, playgrounds, swimming pools )
All that to allow families to spend more quality time with their children, reduce stress, allow families to exercise more control over their lives, promote family oriented society.
In that respect France and Scandinavia are pretty good. Actually, those places are rather progressive, anything but catholic, which stands for conservative views and ways.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:47 PM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,306,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
In that respect France and Scandinavia are pretty good. Actually, those places are rather progressive, anything but catholic, which stands for conservative views and ways.
its a bit simplistic to say catholicism stands for conservative views and ways , protestants in alabama make most catholics anywhere look like pinko liberals , classic catholicism is to the right on social issues but is left wing economically , why do you think traditional irish americans overwhelmingly voted democrat down the years , if countries like sweeden and denmark were not so liberal on gays , abortion and sex , the vatican would champion them by way of thier wealth redistribution policys , hardcore religous protestants on the other hand believe jesus was a fiscal conservative and oppose redistribution of wealth
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,784,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
its a bit simplistic to say catholicism stands for conservative views and ways , protestants in alabama make most catholics anywhere look like pinko liberals , classic catholicism is to the right on social issues but is left wing economically , why do you think traditional irish americans overwhelmingly voted democrat down the years , if countries like sweeden and denmark were not so liberal on gays , abortion and sex , the vatican would champion them by way of thier wealth redistribution policys , hardcore religous protestants on the other hand believe jesus was a fiscal conservative and oppose redistribution of wealth
I don't know who defines what real protestants are about. The ones in Germany, where protestantism was born, probably have little in common with those in Alabama as they are rather progressive and liberal, whereas the southern catholic half of Germany is more conservative, not only in terms of social issues, but also regarding economics.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Toronto
3,295 posts, read 7,025,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
In the US you're a 'loser' if you're still at home past your mid 20s, everyone lives in a different state, a lot of people don't keep in touch with their family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post

Yes, it is the same in Europe. When there is an economic crisis, kids live with their parents for a longer time. Not because they want to, but because they have to. I read somewhere that the same thing is happening in the US now...
In Canada, too.

Not long ago, the news/radio was discussing this trend happening in Canadian cities as well, from an economic/demographic perspective, coming from two angles -- the trend of well-educated youth in their 20s to move back in with parents if they cannot find work right away (often in an over-saturated job market even for educated folks), and also the increasing number of immigrants from cultures with the extended kin culture carrying it with them, when they arrive to the city.

I think people are conflating two different factors when they mean staying with parents onto adulthood.

When people think of another as a "loser" for living with family members at an adult age, it is towards those who are seen as leaching off mommy and daddy's or big brother or big sister's paycheck or whatever, or refusing to go out on their own and work/make it even if they could do it, and because of that they are seen as spoiled and incapable/immature. People are not looked down on for just the act of living with kin, but for not being able to make a living independently.

However, in the countries where they got the extended kin, and the family ties, whether it be family business or whatever, it's really often the adult children supporting the parents in their old age, not vice versa. It could be the ageing parents moving in with the kid's family (usually the son -- which is also why sons are preferred in Asian cultures like India -- the daughters are seen as moving away to be with and supporting the husband's family).

In any case, I'm sure the number of 20-something year olds in general who are forced to delay moving out is increasing across many developed nations as more and more education and schooling is required before people get their first job. Even in those Old World countries where adult children are supposed to support their ageing parents, by cultural values, are facing this problem too where the children take a long time to repay their debts.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Toronto
3,295 posts, read 7,025,967 times
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Regarding the US and "family-orientation", well the sitcom Everybody Loves Raymond is clearly a TV show reflecting the strong family ties that do exist.

Last edited by Stumbler.; 04-25-2012 at 05:47 PM..
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,915 posts, read 87,471,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
You really think the US is more 'family orientated' than Italy is?

In Italy, maybe partly for economic reasons, but kids often stay with their parents until they're 30, grandparents often live with their grandchildren.

In the US you're a 'loser' if you're still at home past your mid 20s, everyone lives in a different state, a lot of people don't keep in touch with their family.
I agree. In many countries adult kids often live with parents and grandparents. That way they can keep an eye on each others. Grandparents usually watch their grand kids while parents are at work. They also do shopping and help in general household. That way kids don't have to be raised by strangers.
Parents, while at work don't have to be worried about their kids. Works perfect for everyone.
When the grandparents gets older, the younger generation take care of them and give a comfort. No need for nursing homes. Visiting nurse will take care of the medical stuff.
When the grandparents die, the grand kids are about an age to get married and have own family. Their parents become a grandparents and the cycle repeats itself.
Some houses are occupied by the same family for many, many years.
They live together, but maintain some degree of independence.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,915 posts, read 87,471,218 times
Reputation: 131943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbler. View Post
Even in those Old World countries where adult children are supposed to support their ageing parents, by cultural values, are facing this problem too where the children take a long time to repay their debts.
Student loans in Europe are not creating such financial distress like in the USA, because many universities are free of charge, there also are many grants and no interest loans. Most other universities charges are very low.
Does education need cost so much? A comparison with Western Europe | Liberal Conspiracy
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