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Old 06-01-2012, 08:15 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,034,272 times
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Many geneticists now discount the idea of 'races.' I.e., groups of people that are distinct from one another genetically that share certain physical traits, i.e. the Caucasoid (white), Negroid (black), Mongoloid (asian), Australoid (australian aborigine), Amercanid (native american).

It was used to be believed that some peoples were mixtures of these races, such as Melanesians, Malays, Ethiopians, Tartars.

Which groups don't neatly fit into the standard idea of 'races'? In the US, the term 'race' is still used for demographic purposes. I question where these peoples would fit in this scale:

Berbers
Ethiopians
Yemenis
darker Arabs
Kazakhs
Uyghurs
Sami
Uzbeks
Burmese
Malays
Javanese
Polynesians

Just to start with. Obviously, an islander from Sulawesi or Flores might've once between considered an intermediate between Astraloid/Melanesian and Mongoloid, as would a Malay, with the Malay being closer to the Mongoloid type. A Mongolian or Korean might be seen as more 'purely' Mongoloid, and an Australian aborigine the most pure 'Astraloid.' Even Southeast Asians and Southern Chinese were said to be more 'Astronesian' or 'Astraloid' than Northern Chinese.

Kazakhs are estimated to be about 60% 'Asian', although there are no 'Asian' genes, just certain haplogroups that tend to be more common in certain population, tendencies found at greater frequencies.
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:40 AM
 
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Berbers- Middle Eastern
Ethiopian-Black
Yemenis-Middle Eastern
darker Arabs-Middle Eastern
Kazakhs-Asian
Uyghurs-Asian
Sami-White
Uzbeks-Asian
Burmese-Asian
Malays-Asian
Javanese-Asian
Polynesians-Black
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:49 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,034,272 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by hadrett32 View Post
Berbers- Middle Eastern
Ethiopian-Black
Yemenis-Middle Eastern
darker Arabs-Middle Eastern
Kazakhs-Asian
Uyghurs-Asian
Sami-White
Uzbeks-Asian
Burmese-Asian
Malays-Asian
Javanese-Asian
Polynesians-Black
Polynesians 'black'? I think you're thinking Melanesians or Astroloids. The Rock is Polynesian, as are Hawaiians and Maori.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:05 AM
 
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To be honest, most of those groups (and I'm looking at you, Ethiopians) can fit fairly neatly into one discernible 'race' as sen through th lens of the US census. Unfortunately, what you find in many of these groups (again, I'm staring at you, Ethiopia, HARD) is self-hate, not dissimilar to many people in the Dominican Republic.

Southeast Asians have a very interesting and diverse group of people. I remember reading about the "negritos" in the Philippines and such.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
337 posts, read 929,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DginnWonder View Post
To be honest, most of those groups (and I'm looking at you, Ethiopians) can fit fairly neatly into one discernible 'race' as sen through th lens of the US census.
Why should the "lens of the US census" be used to classify people outside the US?

For fun, maybe we should ask Ethiopians how they would classify Americans if it were up to them.

Quote:
Unfortunately, what you find in many of these groups (again, I'm staring at you, Ethiopia, HARD) is self-hate, not dissimilar to many people in the Dominican Republic.
That's a rather sweeping psychological generalization. How do you know it's self-hate, rather than some other factor, like culture, linguistics or even pride?
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:53 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,191 posts, read 107,809,412 times
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Kazakhs are a mix, like you said. There are blond Kazakhs, with Indo-European genetic markers. The Uighurs and Tibetan nomads are 1/2 Indo-European and 1/2 north Asian. Polynesians are 1/2 Melanesian (Black) and 1/2 aboriginal Vietnamese (Austroneseian), those are kind of in a class by themselves. There are two types of Saami; some are White, some are dark, and related to Samoyeds. There are enclaves of dark people among the Saami, and genetic research shows they came from completely different stock.

You should include Tibetans on your list. Some Tibetans are related to the Chinese. The nomads are 1/2 Altaic (north Asian, like the Mongols, Manchus and Turkic peoples) and 1/2 Indo-Euro. Tibetans are really two different peoples with two different cultures: sedentary vs. nomadic. The language also shows this split; the grammar is Altaic while the vocabulary is mostly Sinitic (Chinese-related).

What about the Ainu? Definitely Australoid, but with something else mixed in. Very ancient people, those. (The older Ainu, before admixture from Japanese and Manchus from Sakhalin Island).

Great topic.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Spain
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berebers are caucasian, you can see this in the mountainous areas of Morocco, however, in areas of northern africa has been mixed with sub-Saharan, i guess this is more noticeable in the desert. You can see blue-eyed blond Berbers and berebers with a clear black influence (like the tuaregs).
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:40 PM
 
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Filipinos, Polynesians, Micronesians, Indonesians, and Malaysians are all hybrid Mongoloid-Australoid. With Polynesians & Micronesians being close to half and half, while Indonesians, Malaysians, and Filipinos are around 70/30 Mongoloid/Australoid.

As a whole, I dont think Filipinos defy the idea of race. You go there, and most people still look Mongoloid, but you will see a lot of people who dont look Mongoloid at all and whose facial features cannot be found in a highly Mongoloid country

Last edited by Smtchll; 06-01-2012 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:00 PM
 
492 posts, read 1,008,569 times
Reputation: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josef K. View Post
Why should the "lens of the US census" be used to classify people outside the US?

For fun, maybe we should ask Ethiopians how they would classify Americans if it were up to them.



That's a rather sweeping psychological generalization. How do you know it's self-hate, rather than some other factor, like culture, linguistics or even pride?
The only reason I'm using the US census as a barometer is because OP is questioning where these groups would fall into the US census' labels. I was actually answering his question.

As for the self-hate comment, I have to say this: In the US, we are pretty much all proud of our culture (US), or linguistic heritage (English) and are known to be patriotic. This doesn't diminish the fact that we are Black, WHite, Asian, etc.

You can have pride in your culture and still realize what in other countries you will probably be perceived as.

If it was the self-hate reference about Dominicans, then you should look up the copious amounts of threads, here and elsewhere, as well as videos, interviews, personal anecdotes, how obviously black Dominicans will be offended if you call them such, insisting that they are Dominican and not black (depute the fact that you can be both).

In other censuses or racial studies in other countries, especially ones not nearly as rigid as the US', they may be perceived as something else, but for the census I'm most aware of (US), these groups can pretty easily fit into the categories, albeit with them possibly being perceived as exotic or whatever.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
337 posts, read 929,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DginnWonder View Post
The only reason I'm using the US census as a barometer is because OP is questioning where these groups would fall into the US census' labels. I was actually answering his question.
Thanks for clarifying. I missed that bit.

Quote:
In other censuses or racial studies in other countries, especially ones not nearly as rigid as the US', they may be perceived as something else, but for the census I'm most aware of (US), these groups can pretty easily fit into the categories, albeit with them possibly being perceived as exotic or whatever.
Probably so in most cases. When I think of groups that are hard to classify, I think mainly of peoples from Western Asia or the Caucasus region: Turks, Tatars, Persians, Armenians, Northern Indian (Aryan) peoples, Arabs. Ethiopians (some of them anyway) like to point to their Semitic background, which links them with Arabs, or at least complicates their case a little.
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