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Old 11-05-2012, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Kharkiv, Ukraine
750 posts, read 909,442 times
Reputation: 826

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Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
robber would just take your money and head off. Damage? ~50 bucks.
Quite often robbers practise attack tactics when the victim before a robbery cruelly beat before consciousness loss, it is simple for convenience of a robbery and irrespective of the victim resisted or not. Often it results in disability or death of the victim later.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:20 PM
 
Location: S.W.PA
1,360 posts, read 2,953,252 times
Reputation: 1047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowaysis View Post
What does gun ownership have to do with freedom? If you feel the need to carry a deadly weapon around, obviously you're living in fear or a state of paranoia and are therefore not free at all.
I just came across the thread and haven't read it all so forgive me if I am repeating something already stated. The relationship to freedom is at present theoretical, but valid in my opinion. An armed citizenry gives the people the option to form militias in the face of an oppressive government. I don't know if this idea comes from the US- I think not- but it is the essence of our 2nd amendment to the Constitution. This may seem irrelevant today, but it sure wasn't in the 18th century, as it also wasn't in the early 20th century in Europe, and who knows when in the future. With the right economic and social conditions anything can happen.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:28 PM
 
Location: FIN
888 posts, read 1,593,039 times
Reputation: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I did quick research and found Finland allows the sale and possession of sound suppressors (or silencers as the man on the street calls them) to be quite easy. Not so easy to get one in the US, I'm surprised Finland would let people get them so easily.
AFAIK that is correct. If you plan on using them in a handgun though, acquiring a handgun legally will be much more difficult than it would be in most every US state. Permits are not issued for self-defense purposes. For hobby purposes, you'll probably have to start with a .22 caliber and go for a larger one after a year or two.

Many of our regular patrol police units also have MP5's/shotguns to supplement for patrolmens sidearms, just in case. Kind of necessary, since mostly this is very rural, and the number of policemen is low. Only Helsinki has a dedicated part-time rapid response unit.

In very rural areas, customs and border patrol assist police services alot, they might very well be the first responders if a situation warrants for immediate response.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:12 AM
 
24,639 posts, read 10,968,622 times
Reputation: 47077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowaysis View Post
What about my freedom to not want to live in a society where so many people feel the need to be armed, unless for hunting purposes?
We can turn this in a reinvention of the wheel discussion:>) What do you consider hunting? Who is talking about need to be armed? I want to have choices I can make. Not choices given to me, my personal possessions being controlled by government. What does armed mean to you?
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:16 AM
 
24,639 posts, read 10,968,622 times
Reputation: 47077
Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
I think the current situation in Austria is quite good. There are basically 4 categories of weapons:

Category A (forbidden weapons and war material (military guns, ...)): weapons with silencers, fully automatic guns; generally forbidden. I think that's quite good, nobody needs silencers or automatic guns to ensure personal safety.

Category B (handguns and other semiautomatic guns/rifles): you need a special permission (Waffenbesitzkarte) to have one at home and another one to carry it with you (Waffenpass).
You get a Waffenbesitzkarte after passing a psychological test and when you have a reason for owning a gun (personal safety, sports, hunting). You get a Waffenpass, when you need your weapon for hunting or because of your occupation (police, security firms, but also taxi drivers).

Category C (bolt-, lever- or pump action): All Austrian citizens aged 18 or over can freely buy and own this type of weapon, but ownership has to be registered at a licensed dealer or gunsmith within 6 weeks of purchase. You have to get a Waffenpass to carry it in public.

Category D (non-repeating shotguns): Again, every Austrian or EEA citizen at the age of 18+ can buy and own this type of weapon without further registration or permission.
So, it's quite easy to get a weapon, but hardly anyone gets one, except hunters.

Besides that, I don't think that gun ownership is a sign or feature of freedom. It's rather depressing when everybody on the street is allowed to carry one and to know, that a good portion of society is, simply put, crazy. I also don't feel that our government is so dangerous that I have to defend myself from them. The possibility of running into a psychopath with a gun in a country with rather liberal gun ownership law seems to be higher than the establishment of another fascist regime, that oppresses its people.

If I wouldn't have read this thread on C-D, it wouldn't even have crossed my mind to connect gun ownership with the idea of personal freedom.
I presume you mean citizens of EU member states. If so your statement is incorrect.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,350,619 times
Reputation: 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threestep View Post
I presume you mean citizens of EU member states. If so your statement is incorrect.
Whoops, I'm sorry. Just realized that since October 2012 other rules apply. Now Cat D weapons also have to be registered by citizens of Austria and other EU citizens. Weapons of Cat D bought before October don't have to be registered, though.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
2,309 posts, read 4,388,524 times
Reputation: 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowaysis View Post
What does gun ownership have to do with freedom? If you feel the need to carry a deadly weapon around, obviously you're living in fear or a state of paranoia and are therefore not free at all.
Both my wife and I are CCW permit holders meaning that we carry out in public.
In a world filled with more angry separation than co existence carrying firearms for protection is just good thinking.

Your probably pegging me as a rabid right winger which is absolutely not correct.

I'm a left leaning centrist Democrat.

Self protection is not defined by political affiliation, paranoia or fear but by common sense.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,350,619 times
Reputation: 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by julian17033 View Post
Self protection is not defined by political affiliation, paranoia or fear but by common sense.
For people from countries like Austria (small, safe, ...) this concept is probably just too bizarre to be understood.
There are no reasons to carry a gun here. But I guess the situation in America must be different.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Telford, Shropshire UK
54 posts, read 109,758 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threestep View Post
We can turn this in a reinvention of the wheel discussion:>) What do you consider hunting? Who is talking about need to be armed? I want to have choices I can make. Not choices given to me, my personal possessions being controlled by government. What does armed mean to you?
I don't buy all this armed militia crap. If the government wanted to take over, guns would be zero use against planes and tanks. I don't live in that fear and paranoia. If I don't like something the government is doing, I'll write to my local MP or I'll protest peacefully. I would not want to live in a society where literally anyone can obtain a gun legally. I am in favour of somewhat more relaxed gun laws than here in the UK, but I could mow to Northern Ireland and enjoy just as many gun privileges there if I chose to.

Hunters, farmers need them. People should also be able to go shooting as a hobby, but I don't agree with guns being carried around or kept in cars.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Scotland
7,956 posts, read 11,854,913 times
Reputation: 4167
I watched a programme where a normal, if you can call him that, citizen in Arizona patrols the border in camouflage clothing and a machine gun, pistol and knife. He said he is stopping illegal immigrants from crossing the border, what gives him the right to do that! If anyone thinks that is just and normal, we aren't on the same wavelength and never will be, it boggles the mind.
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