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Old 06-10-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Toronto
3,338 posts, read 6,420,556 times
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Only recently did I find out that this phenomenon existed, where in some countries certain nationalist or fringe group started using the country's own flag and thereafter, the citizens of that country feel ashamed or want to disassociate with the flag.

Maybe it's just impression/based on what I've seen read, but England and Australia have been often cited time and again as examples on this forum.

I'm actually surprised because right now, because of the Euro 2012 and in the past I've seen for other sporting events, the St. George's Cross flag is seen on cars here in the city sometimes, by I presume English fans.

From a North American point of view, it seems hard to understand. I'm trying to imagine that happening to a Canadian or American flag and it does seem the social atmosphere is unlikely to allow it. After all if the flag is already used on government forms, products, for sports, near buildings etc. and already is established as a symbol of the country, what allows the fringe minority to hijack it and make it stand for their views only? Would the rest of the population, just stand back and take it seriously?

What explains the social phenomenon?
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,256 posts, read 26,625,991 times
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The St. George's flag is always flown here during sporting events, no question, but outside sporting events I almost never, ever, ever see a St. George's flag being flown. There's one on a flag pole not far from here but that's the only one I've seen flying anywhere in my home city.

I guess a lot of the blame has been put on successive governments letting in many people from all over the world such as India and Pakistan, and there have been stories of the police saying 'please don't put that flag in your car window because it might offend a minority'. This seems to be a thing of the past now, and the current government has 'promised' to make the UK less PC, but people have almost been made to feel ashamed to be English in England over the past 20 years. St. George's day is not really celebrated either. I've never in my life seen a parade or a celebration for that day, this year it went by without a single mention anywhere.

Another thing people blame is football fans. English football fans have a bad reputation for causing mischief.

I guess a big reason though is that we don't feel the need to show our flag everywhere. I think the majority are proud of their country but are proud quietly and not in your face.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto
3,338 posts, read 6,420,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
I guess a lot of the blame has been put on successive governments letting in many people from all over the world such as India and Pakistan, and there have been stories of the police saying 'please don't put that flag in your car window because it might offend a minority'. This seems to be a thing of the past now, and the current government has 'promised' to make the UK less PC, but people have almost been made to feel ashamed to be English in England over the past 20 years. St. George's day is not really celebrated either. I've never in my life seen a parade or a celebration for that day, this year it went by without a single mention anywhere.

Another thing people blame is football fans. English football fans have a bad reputation for causing mischief.

I guess a big reason though is that we don't feel the need to show our flag everywhere. I think the majority are proud of their country but are proud quietly and not in your face.
That's interesting that even the government there perceived the flag as that way (are immigrants really offended by the country of the flag they're coming to/about to join? ). I get the feeling, on the flip side, if anything recent newcomers to Canada are actually very likely to go out of their way to display the flag or wear a flag themed shirt etc. to try and show now that they feel loyal to their new country. (Another thing that strikes me as popular among immigrants here is actually to have both the Canadian flag side by side with a flag of their old country).

Maybe it's a cultural difference, between Old World and New World countries?
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
4,228 posts, read 6,235,787 times
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I suppose the biggest problem with Australia’s flag is it celebrates our "britishness". Obviously our natives don’t like it, because they were essentially invaded and forced off the land by the white invaders.

Australia's population has gone from 95% British/Irish ancestry, to something currently more like 60% British/Irish ancestry in 50 years, in 20 years time it’s almost certain that people of British/Irish ancestry will represent less than half the country’s population. (Apologies to all the residents of the Republic of Ireland, I know you are not British).

Finally and most importantly the flag has basically being hijacked by extreme right wing race hate groups, who seem to want to return to the principles upon which the country was founded, as a white working man’s paradise, where everyone speaks English.

Edit:
Another big thing about the use of the Aussie flag, is that we are one of the few countries in the world to my knowledge who has international sporting colours that are entirely different to the colours of the national flag (New Zealand does as well) So at international sporting contests, where you would expect to see a countries flag everywhere, a lot of aussies go for a green and gold boxing Kangaroo flag, rather than the red white and blue one, the kiwis of course have their black silver fern flags.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 06-10-2012 at 09:33 PM..
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:48 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,682 posts, read 50,646,022 times
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Agree with the above. The Union Jack is a sticking point among some as it ties us to our British heritage, although the Southern Cross has also definitely been appropriated as a 'nationalist' symbol by some, or is seen by some as one.
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Old 06-11-2012, 03:16 AM
 
25,058 posts, read 25,557,267 times
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Easy, when you have idiot crybabies in the government crying about "fairness" that's what happens. People need to grow a thicker skin and stop crying so much over nothing
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Old 06-11-2012, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,029 posts, read 25,741,168 times
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Why not just create a few designs and have a vote on a new Australian flag like Canada did when we got rid of the Red Ensign for the Red and white Maple Leaf.
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Old 06-11-2012, 03:39 AM
 
546 posts, read 1,323,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbler. View Post
That's interesting that even the government there perceived the flag as that way (are immigrants really offended by the country of the flag they're coming to/about to join? ). I get the feeling, on the flip side, if anything recent newcomers to Canada are actually very likely to go out of their way to display the flag or wear a flag themed shirt etc. to try and show now that they feel loyal to their new country. (Another thing that strikes me as popular among immigrants here is actually to have both the Canadian flag side by side with a flag of their old country).

Maybe it's a cultural difference, between Old World and New World countries?


American Southeners understand quite well the phenomena. The battle flag of the Condeferacy is now considered "racist" and not "PC" and was removed from the flags of many states because the political agenda of some politicians.

Just the same thing happens in Europe. Flags are subject to political agendas. National flags are considered by many a show of nationalism, and many countries have had issues with extreme nationalism (Spain, Germany, Italy, etc).
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
24,979 posts, read 31,968,637 times
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In any country where you have a separatist movement in a particular region the larger national flag may be viewed negatively, as a symbol of occupation or conquest by the larger entity that they want to separate from.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:14 AM
 
213 posts, read 786,865 times
Reputation: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
I guess a lot of the blame has been put on successive governments letting in many people from all over the world such as India and Pakistan, and there have been stories of the police saying 'please don't put that flag in your car window because it might offend a minority'.
That is an interesting point. I am curious to know how the flag could offend an Indian or Pakistani immigrant? Is it because India used to be a British colony and the flag could be seen as a symbol of subjugation?
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