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Old 06-26-2012, 10:54 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
No kidding? lol
:urk: typo
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:08 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Not, not really, unless we are talking about the upper class in pre-revolutionary Russia. There you wouldn't really know much difference between Paris, Berlin or St. Petersburg. As for the rest of the society - there Russia was closer in many ways to third world country; poverty, illiteracy, lawlessness. After all, out of all European countries Russia was the only one that had slavery up until 1825. ( Slavery - meaning the landlords still could sell or kill their peasants - they were their property.
Even today's Russia, in spite of all the glitz and glamor of Moscow in many ways is akin to third world countries, as rich in natural resources as it is. The corruption is at the African level, so this should tell a thing or two right there.
So you're defining "Eastern" as underdeveloped. Not always the case.

I'm not aware of this aspect of Russian serfdom--that serfs could be bought and sold, killed, even. Normally under serfdom the serfs are only "sold" when the property on which they live changes hands. Though Tibetan serfdom was as you describe. In Latin America generally, serfdom was of the less harsh sort (though still with its harsh aspects, certainly).
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:47 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
What a great discussion! Nice to see you, Grey, I haven't seen you on the forum for awhile.
For nuala's point: I deliberately left out the Siberian peoples and other Native peoples of Russia, because I wanted to focus on ethnic Russians, Slavic Russians.

I agree with those who posted that Russia is Eastern, or maybe more accurately, a blend of East and West. There are elements of Russian culture that are from the East, and the mysticism and belief among many Russians in traditional healers seems very Eastern. The mindset seems more Eastern to me, though that depends on which Russians you talk to, haha. Although if you dig back far enough in West European history, you'd find those elements there, too. It's probably something common to all humanity, though in some "modern" cultures it got lost.

As for Russian culture being "very patriarchal", it has always seemed to me to be much less so than "Western" culture. Russian tradition is closer to its matriarchal roots than Western culture (with the possible exception of parts of Scandinavia). You can see this in some of the folklore. It shows up in subtle ways, for example, how girls and boys in school are given equal importance, whereas in American schools the boys have always been given more attention by teachers. This would be considered scandalous, and evidence of poor teaching skills in Russia. Girls are raised in the family with the same career expectations as boys (or used to be. I don't know how it is now). There's no bias in favor of the boys, no assumption that their careers will be more important.

But maybe this has all changed now. Maybe women now are raised mainly to be goddesses for worship.

Thank you, everyone, for wonderful posts. By all means, continue enjoying the discussion.
A lot of work from me, so at the forum appear as there is time. Not everything remained as in the old days.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:56 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
There are two words in Russian that would be translated more or less as "Russian".

Русский Russki refers to someone who is ethnically Russian.

Российский Rossiiskii refers to someone who is a citizen of the Russian Federation.

The second term includes other ethnic groups such as Yakut and Buryad people, etc., who live on Russian soil, despite not being culturally and ethnically Russian.

I think the fact Russia is ethnically diverse makes answering the OP question impossible. Russia isn't Eastern or Western. It's a blend of Eastern and Western people.

To give you an idea, I look European white, but where I was born, there are also people who would be mistaken for Chinese or Mongolian on a subway car.
To answer the question of this topic, it is enough to examine the Coat of arms of Russia. This two-headed eagle, one head смортит to the West, the other to the East but is the very center of It, the West and the East and not the West and not East is its another
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Are Russians Easterners or Westerners?-.jpg  
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:05 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrconfusion87 View Post
Russia was never fully accepted and embraced by the West, nor do they see themselves as Easterners either... They are simply their own entity as far as I can tell...
Because Russia has to go on your road development
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
India's called a "subcontinent" possibly because geologically, it's not part of Europe, it actually was a separate continent at one time. I'm agreeable to demoting Europe to a "subcontinent", though, or a peninsula of Eurasia.
I've personally only heard the Indian subcontinent being called a subcontinent by convention (what examples of other subcontinents can you name off the top of your head? )

I'm not sure if there's a precise definition of a subcontinent (mostly seen it simply referring to a large, distinctive part of a continent, which doesn't really add much to the definition, because you still have the problem of defining a continent and then on top of that trying to find what are distinctive subsets of that continent). It'd be definitely an interesting idea and make people think perhaps a little differently if we starting using Eurasia as the standard name for the largest continent (it's mentioned already that some people use the term very often in Russia, and in many academic fields of study "Eurasia" already is commonly used too) and then divvy it up into subsets.

It's pretty much all cultural convention anyways. I'm not sure how many people are hung up on debating continent definitions, most are content to go with the convention they were taught in school (I personally haven't encountered that many people who personally care a lot, but I'm sure there are people who are quite vocal about it!).
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:44 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,233 posts, read 108,060,523 times
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um...? I don't know, I was only responding to someone objecting to India being called a subcontinent. I still think demoting Europe to a subcontinent might not be a bad idea. Or a peninsula. Someone was complaining about Europe being designated a continent, too. Not that this has anything to do with whether Russians are Westerners or Easterners.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:54 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
So you're defining "Eastern" as underdeveloped. Not always the case.

I'm not aware of this aspect of Russian serfdom--that serfs could be bought and sold, killed, even. Normally under serfdom the serfs are only "sold" when the property on which they live changes hands. Though Tibetan serfdom was as you describe. In Latin America generally, serfdom was of the less harsh sort (though still with its harsh aspects, certainly).
I would not say that serfdom in America has been less severe. Undoubtedly, the most tragic and dramatic episode in American history is the existence of the institution of Negro slavery, stretched out on nearly two and a half centuries. The use of the labor of black slaves were common practice in the development of the New world by Europeans. Without the Africa Europe in the literal sense could not raise America. Americans holds a sad record - slavery in the United States there were over 89 years after independence - an absolute record for the countries of the Western hemisphere. Only in Brazil slavery was abolished later, however, the path of independent existence in Brazil was much shorter
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:51 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,409,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Yes you are right! Western civilization has grown by Protestant values, where success, efficiency of life, making money is the salvation of man. Russian civilization grew by Orthodox values, where the basis of salvation of the human soul were justice, compassion, morality, and communitarianism . If to say that we are the East, that we are not Chinese, not Japanese. If the West: we are not Americans, the Germans and the French. We are Russian, we are different. And the way of culture and of course the other
Didn't the Roman Catholics play a role here?
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:03 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Didn't the Roman Catholics play a role here?
To be honest question is not understood, and then the Roman Catholics?
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