Are Russians Easterners or Westerners? (to live in, costs, move to)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by sheena12

I don't know any Russians who would self identify as "Oriental" or "Asian",

True, but historically some did. There was an era in which it was hotly debated whether Russia was East or West--the Slavophiles vs. the Westernizers, something like this. But today, you're right, no ethnic Russians would consider themselves in any way Asiatic (Heaven forbid!). The resurgence of an interest in traditional healing and shamanism makes me thing there's something in the mentality that isn't completely Western. Although you could say, well this is just the same New Age drivel that's popular in the West, I think this is debatable. Because these traditions survived in Russia and Ukraine to modern times, so the "revival" is drawing on Russia's own roots. Whereas everywhere in the West, people are running to other cultures to play mystical games, adopt trendy foreign garb, and so forth.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

True, but historically some did. There was an era in which it was hotly debated whether Russia was East or West--the Slavophiles vs. the Westernizers, something like this.

Yes, but Slavophils never really argued that Russia was not "Western" but "Asian" country.
When Slavophils were talking "East," they were talking first of all Eastern Roman Empire, i.e Byzantium, because Russian Orthodoxy was one of the cornerstones that was setting Russia apart from the West.
If you look at Russian Wiki, yet another important source of literature for Slavophiles was German classical philosophy (Schelling, Hegel) and - yes, Orthodox Theology. So it was always an argument against the Westerners ( as they were called in Russian) that Russia had its own unique path of development, but it had little ( if anything) to do with Asia. And if they were calling themselves "Asians" - then it was mostly with a purpose to flame the "Westerners."
( So most likely Russians were the ones who coined the term "Westerner" to begin with.)

But today, you're right, no ethnic Russians would consider themselves in any way Asiatic (Heaven forbid!).

They never did; "Asia" in Russian mind was always associated with something underdeveloped and backward ( don't forget that the part of Asia they were historically dealing with, was Central Asia - i.e. either Islamic countries or nomads.)
As a matter of fact, talking about "Eurasia" (which is directly related to their own country and mixed culture,) they've invented yet another term in best tradition of Russian sense of humor and irony. Since "Europe" in Russia is "Evropa" (which rhymes very nicely with a word "posterior" in Russian slang, i.e. "jopa,) they came up with a new definition of "Asiopa," referring to anything that's backward and plain crazy in Russia.

The resurgence of an interest in traditional healing and shamanism makes me thing there's something in the mentality that isn't completely Western.

No, of course not, ( except for the upper class in pre-revolutionary Russia, that was very intertwined with Western Europeans,) but Russian peasantry was always holding on to its old roots and traditions, that were coming from pagan times.

Although you could say, well this is just the same New Age drivel that's popular in the West, I think this is debatable. Because these traditions survived in Russia and Ukraine to modern times, so the "revival" is drawing on Russia's own roots. Whereas everywhere in the West, people are running to other cultures to play mystical games, adopt trendy foreign garb, and so forth.

I suspect that ( at least some parts) of Western Europe can still drawn "revival" from their own roots ( if interested,) however Americans ( Canadians, Australians) - yes, they'd have to turn for that "revival" somewhere else.

[GreyKarast]

Originally Posted by bartonfly

Exactly. But the uniqueness in Russia is less with each passing year, we have a lot of English words in Russian language and we are using them all time, we are watching mainly Hollywood or Western European films and hearing their music, even many shops (also cafe, restaurants, bars, night clubs, movie houses, etc.) in my city have the English names and their names are written by the English letters.
What's about democracy, you are right, some people in the current Russian government say that "we don't need a Western-style democracy and we will build own democracy."

This is a natural phenomenon, so it was for many centuries in the history of Russia.It is a relic of the 90's but recently I notice that in the end everything comes back in their direction, to the understanding of our culture and worldview. But Russia's Path in the policy and culturally in any case will be his and not the West and not East, just different

[GreyKarast]

Russians and Russia though has absorbed in itself all the good that had stuck with the West (Europe) and the East (Asia) But we-raised on different values, different from Asia and Europe. Asia has its own civilization, with his faith, and the raising of man, the spirit ... as Well as Europe is also of their civilization (Turkey think, too, has its own civilization) with all its sights... Russian civilization to the West unspecified opposes and life-threatening, in contrast to Western civilization. We are getting food for the Western civilization are determined by market relations. «If you are in the market - we'll eat, and it's legal». In the Russian civilization to imagine that there can be such laws relations between civilisations, in General it is impossible. For this reason I spoke negatively about America and Europe. Western civilization considers himself a humane and correct but it is not so! You are not you can live with those who are different from you or who is stronger or weaker. You want to be the main ones. In the Russian civilization other values we along and recognize the weak, strong and others and will not disturb them live so the way they want and Flattery in a foreign St.Catherine monastery with its Charter as does the West, in particular America. Exactly as well - and with the Asian civilizations, which may not be the equilibrium, because what we have is very different attitude... In other words, Western civilization cannot peacefully co-exist with other civilizations and does not recognize its value. The Russian civilisation of the other plan, she peacefully coexists with other civilizations and recognition of their values as well as their own and considers that they are not worse than their but others. For this reason Russia is a multinational country in which a peaceful and friendly coexistence of different peoples and is the largest country in the world Here this model is the true model of our world.
Believe me, if today operated the Russian civilization then the world would be less aggressive than it is at the head of the Western civilization. The basis of this in the education of man, spirit and moral values. But sooner or later humanity will come just to the Russian civilization as to the true. And in the words of one of the political scientist known in Russia and the West-Our civilization in this sense, developed, firstly, a huge historical experience of existence in the inter-civilizational contradictions and, secondly, the ability of survival (unfortunately, I only survival), which should go to the self-assertion of civilization as the- a valuable education of the Universe. Education, which includes both the state and the people, and the human and the nature, and the idea of how it should all be arranged. It is for this together we are different from Western and other civilizations. For us, the man is in the image and likeness is created, the state is the power, the autocracy of people, a huge territory, the God of this. That is the culture, value-sense code of this civilization, which stores, stores and transmits these values and meanings in all its historical movement. I.e. if you take this whole... When asked: «What is the difference? "our Russia is different cultural and civilizational identity, consisting of very specific parameters

[Neutre]

Originally Posted by GreyKarast

Russians and Russia though has absorbed in itself all the good that had stuck with the West (Europe) and the East (Asia) But we-raised on different values, different from Asia and Europe. Asia has its own civilization, with his faith, and the raising of man, the spirit ... as Well as Europe is also of their civilization (Turkey think, too, has its own civilization) with all its sights... Russian civilization to the West unspecified opposes and life-threatening, in contrast to Western civilization. We are getting food for the Western civilization are determined by market relations. «If you are in the market - we'll eat, and it's legal». In the Russian civilization to imagine that there can be such laws relations between civilisations, in General it is impossible. For this reason I spoke negatively about America and Europe. Western civilization considers himself a humane and correct but it is not so! You are not you can live with those who are different from you or who is stronger or weaker. You want to be the main ones. In the Russian civilization other values we along and recognize the weak, strong and others and will not disturb them live so the way they want and Flattery in a foreign St.Catherine monastery with its Charter as does the West, in particular America. Exactly as well - and with the Asian civilizations, which may not be the equilibrium, because what we have is very different attitude... In other words, Western civilization cannot peacefully co-exist with other civilizations and does not recognize its value. The Russian civilisation of the other plan, she peacefully coexists with other civilizations and recognition of their values as well as their own and considers that they are not worse than their but others. For this reason Russia is a multinational country in which a peaceful and friendly coexistence of different peoples and is the largest country in the world Here this model is the true model of our world.
Believe me, if today operated the Russian civilization then the world would be less aggressive than it is at the head of the Western civilization. The basis of this in the education of man, spirit and moral values. But sooner or later humanity will come just to the Russian civilization as to the true. And in the words of one of the political scientist known in Russia and the West-Our civilization in this sense, developed, firstly, a huge historical experience of existence in the inter-civilizational contradictions and, secondly, the ability of survival (unfortunately, I only survival), which should go to the self-assertion of civilization as the- a valuable education of the Universe. Education, which includes both the state and the people, and the human and the nature, and the idea of how it should all be arranged. It is for this together we are different from Western and other civilizations. For us, the man is in the image and likeness is created, the state is the power, the autocracy of people, a huge territory, the God of this. That is the culture, value-sense code of this civilization, which stores, stores and transmits these values and meanings in all its historical movement. I.e. if you take this whole... When asked: «What is the difference? "our Russia is different cultural and civilizational identity, consisting of very specific parameters

If I understood you correctly, I'd agree with you that for the last couple of centuries we've been accustomed to ORIENTing ourselves not to the ORIENT, but to the Occident and acquiring the attitude of "West is Best" & "East is Beast".
That's basically what we're taught and what we're used to do.

Originally Posted by erasure

They never did; "Asia" in Russian mind was always associated with something underdeveloped and backward ( don't forget that the part of Asia they were historically dealing with, was Central Asia - i.e. either Islamic countries or nomads.)
As a matter of fact, talking about "Eurasia" (which is directly related to their own country and mixed culture,) they've invented yet another term in best tradition of Russian sense of humor and irony. Since "Europe" in Russia is "Evropa" (which rhymes very nicely with a word "posterior" in Russian slang, i.e. "jopa,) they came up with a new definition of "Asiopa," referring to anything that's backward and plain crazy in Russia.

And the tradition of belittling Asians/Easterners, denying them the credits for their development and achievements, and worshiping the "West" goes on..

Originally Posted by Neutre

In fact, the Occident had been trying to belittle Japan or the Oriental world in general.
Westerners did force Japan to open up, but its development thenceforth happened due to their own effort.
It certainly was not in Western interest that Japan beat Russia in the Russo-Japanese war and became such a superpower.


We're so used to seeing everything through a "Western a.k.a. European lense".
The Middle East is called Middle East even though for billions of people it's not in the East at all.
We're taught that America was discovered by Columbus.
We give the credits for development to Occidentals. Sure, Hong Kong and Singapore were grounded and their borders drawn by Europeans, but so were practically all countries outside of Europe.

If we want to trace further down the history, a lot of the inventions and achievements did not come from the Occident; Maths, numbers, the alphabet, paper, astronomy, noodle, wheel, firework, ice cream, etc. The Bible originated from what we call the Middle East today.
Europeans did acquire, develop and expand a lot of the foreign knowledge treasure, but that's also what many a non-Occidental developed country, like Japan, does.

Anyway, I'm not blaming anybody. As mentioned before, international conventions have for the most part been laid down by Europeans and Western perspective is pretty much the norm we don't even realize we're taking it for granted.

[GreyKarast]

Neutre, Yes, you understood correctly, Western civilization and America to it relates to the direct loves not competition, and for this reason do not like the Eastern civilization or rather the other does not like the West, but the Russian civilization recognizes both the West and the East and can exist peacefully with them and with weak civilizations and will not try to enslave and destroy it from the culture and turn it into a Western civilization or get to work at it.This is the difference between us. But in the end, as it was already said above post, the world will come to the example of the Russian civilization as to the right, which is more of God as values in our spirit, in contrast to the West. will be of course a lot of time and a civilization is established as true but until we, as always survives, but does not lose the spirit and will.Russia keeps the Holy mother of God and we live by it.The West believes that the strength of rules this world and put themselves at the head, Russia believes that the power given to protect the weak and yourself

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Neutre

If I understood you correctly, I'd agree with you that for the last couple of centuries we've been accustomed to ORIENTing ourselves not to the ORIENT, but to the Occident and acquiring the attitude of "West is Best" & "East is Beast".
That's basically what we're taught and what we're used to do.


And the tradition of belittling Asians/Easterners, denying them the credits for their development and achievements, and worshiping the "West" goes on..

This is the Central Asia seeing through the eyes of Russian intelligentsia ( just an example);

V. Vereshagin; "They Triumph" 1871-72

[erasure]

V. Vereshagin; "Sale of a child slave" (1872)

[erasure]

Originally Posted by GreyKarast

Neutre, Yes, you understood correctly, Western civilization and America to it relates to the direct loves not competition, and for this reason do not like the Eastern civilization or rather the other does not like the West, but the Russian civilization recognizes both the West and the East and can exist peacefully with them and with weak civilizations and will not try to enslave and destroy it from the culture and turn it into a Western civilization or get to work at it.This is the difference between us. But in the end, as it was already said above post, the world will come to the example of the Russian civilization as to the right, which is more of God as values in our spirit, in contrast to the West. will be of course a lot of time and a civilization is established as true but until we, as always survives, but does not lose the spirit and will.Russia keeps the Holy mother of God and we live by it.The West believes that the strength of rules this world and put themselves at the head, Russia believes that the power given to protect the weak and yourself

Grey Karast, please tell all this with your own words - I'll translate, because this post of yours is important; it reflects the way Russians perceive their core difference with the West.

( whether this perception is true or not is a different question)

[GreyKarast]

erasure,I honestly do not know if what I asked