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Old 06-28-2012, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Strathclyde & Málaga
2,975 posts, read 8,130,105 times
Reputation: 1867

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Balducci View Post
Exactly! Are you talking about "Freedom of...", "Freedom from...", or both? One person's "freedom" is another one's "license". For example, one person may consider "freedom" the ability to attend the house of worship of one's choice, while another consider "freedom" the ability to appear nude in public without being arrested.
This is very true too.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:54 AM
 
689 posts, read 2,170,164 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Balducci View Post
Exactly! Are you talking about "Freedom of...", "Freedom from...", or both?
Don't forget "Freedom to . . .". And "Freedom to not . . ."
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:59 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,753 posts, read 28,863,566 times
Reputation: 25370
I'm not sure what "greatest country" is supposed to mean. But I think the video in the OP is biased. It fails to mention quite a few things in which the U.S. is at or near #1.

For one thing, the U.S. has the highest number of top-ranking global cities of any country in the world. Take a look at this list:

GaWC - The World According to GaWC 2010

New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta and Philadelphia are all "alpha" category cities. Top that!
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:59 AM
 
497 posts, read 1,433,842 times
Reputation: 383
The US is the country of rules and regulations, just the sensation of those signs everywhere drives you crazy....

"Don't spit", "Don't talk", "Don't kill animals"....even strange signs..."If you kidnap a walking cockoo you will receive a fine of 10.000 dollars"....Then, those civil servants at the airports....I mean, they have dozens of 300 pound black men with a large gun, 400 pound Hispanic women asking you the stupidest things..and then, people are scared all the time, more of a psicological fear than real.

Don't go there because....That place is not safe because...Paranoia everywhere.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Strathclyde & Málaga
2,975 posts, read 8,130,105 times
Reputation: 1867
Quote:
Originally Posted by cojoncillo View Post
Don't go there because....That place is not safe because...Paranoia everywhere.
I had that from the majority of people I met and it was a lot. I don´t have that when I lived in Scotland or Spain. People went about their business normally without fear.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:12 AM
 
30,920 posts, read 37,092,275 times
Reputation: 34589
There was some blatant BS in the original video. The US is NOT 178th in infant mortality. According to this article, we're 41st, nothing to brag about. But the difference between 41st and 178th is huge.

Infant mortality: Why does America lag behind? - The Week

The only bad thing he said about liberals is they lose elections...but he didn't attack any of their ideas, only conservative ones. Typical liberal bias.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:13 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,399,065 times
Reputation: 28565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotslass View Post
CCTV has helped to reduce crime and identify wanted suspects. I felt safer in Scotland than I did in the US with the prevalence of gun crime and gang violence/car jackings my friends always warned me to be careful which is not something I generally worried about when I lived in Scotland, I feel the same in Spain. I don´t feel like I have to have a gun to protect myself here but in the US yes I was more cautious and aware because every week there would be at least 1 shooting. It´s sad and I don´t like to life in fear and have to carry a gun in a truck going to work or going shopping, that feeling is not with me here even if it was legal we do not need it.
I very rarely carry in the car (maybe 1-2 times a year, if that). Violent crime is almost unheard of in my part of town. However, I'm secure in the knowledge that if something happened, I'd be immune from criminal/civil liability. Ideally there wouldn't be violent crime, but that's another discussion for another thread.

Quote:
As far as opportunities perhaps years ago the US would have been viewed in that way but not anymore, there are plenty of opportunities in European countries.
There is a far greater infrastructure in Europe, great transportation, better laws and rights. The US government is just getting silly now and paranoid.
The US government has always been silly and paranoid. Agree to disagree on the other points.

Quote:
To own a gun is another thing but living in a society of fear is another matter, I would rather be in Europe not being able to own a gun than stuck in the US where everyone was armed (carrying guns CCW, or in cars etc) we simply do not have that sort of mindset here and I feel more of a sense of freedom that I can go mountain biking or running or to the supermarket without this fear, I can send my child to school without worrying if there will be a school shooting with kids regularly getting their hands on their parents guns!
I don't worry about getting shot while going about my daily life. I don't live my life in fear of crime and to be completely honest, the country where I personally experienced the most crime as a victim of it was in the UK. I have never been burgled, assaulted, etc. in any country I have ever lived in or visited, including the United States, with the notable exception of the UK. Bad luck? Perhaps.

Quote:
I can speak my mind here too. Just like in Scotland, I come from a democratic society.
I'm a strong supporter of free speech, even if I don't agree with it.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:19 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,866 posts, read 5,256,305 times
Reputation: 3425
"America is not the greatest country anymore" - That presupposes that America was the greatest country at some point. I don't agree with that.

Everyone has different criteria for 'freedom'. Some people believe gun ownership is an essential part of freedom, others believe freedom is being able to live without the feeling that you need to own a gun in order to feel safe. Personally, I don't want to live in a country where carrying a gun is considered completely normal and even something to be proud of. It's clearly ineffective too, considering the high crime rate of the US - and the very high level of gun violence in particular. If everyone owns a gun, there's no relative advantage in defending yourself. By the way, that doesn't mean that in other countries you're not allowed to defend yourself when you're under attack, even using deadly force if necessary. It also doesn't mean that people are not allowed to own guns period, there are exceptions to the rule. In the Netherlands, citizens who are hunters, members of shooting sports clubs or legitimate collectors can obtain a license for firearms. It is strictly regulated though, with limitations on the number and type of firearms that can be owned and whether or not the firearms can be used (a collectors licence does not cover shooting).

In many ways the Netherlands has more freedom than the US. Certain things that are illegal in the US are allowed here, such as prostitution, euthanasia, soft drugs, gay marriage and adoption, alcohol consumption at the age of 16+, much less censorship in the media (in terms of swear words, sex and violence) and one of the least strict piracy law enforcements in the world (you can generally 'illegally' download music or movies without fear of prosecution). On the other hand, we do have restrictions on hate speech - although they are quite liberal considering the stuff Geert Wilders & co. get away with - and driving a car is only allowed at the age of 17/18. Despite all these 'freedoms', the Netherlands has a very low crime rate, one of the lowest teenage pregnancy rates in the world and a very low drug abuse rate (for example, in the US twice as many people have used cannabis in their lifetime than in the NL).
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Burlington, Colorado
350 posts, read 851,216 times
Reputation: 504
Its a scary day when people equate safety with freedom. Safety at the expense of personal liberties is not freedom. 1984 anyone?
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:40 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,866 posts, read 5,256,305 times
Reputation: 3425
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohazco View Post
Its a scary day when people equate safety with freedom. 1984 anyone?
Isn't that the main argument for gun ownership, that you feel safer because you're able to defend yourself with deadly force?

By the way, I don't think freedom necessarily trumps safety at all times. Who says it has to?
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