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Old 07-05-2012, 03:37 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,443,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohazco View Post
This whole idea that you have to walk around in fear in everyday normal America is so incredibly ridiculous. I don't know much about the really big cities (NYC, Philadelphia, etc), but elsewhere it just isn't true except in the bad part of town. If you do, then you are the paranoid one, not me. I know one brit who who is surprised he agrees with me too.
BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | America's 'safety catch'
I think I am a bit more inclined to trust clean statistics than that ethereal sense of "peacefulness" the article is promoting.

I can guarantee you there was a lot of peace in the air during that morning in Columbine, before the nightmare happened; and so many others that followed...

The reason why America has that sense of "peacefulness" is not because it is safe but because it is is largely made of sleepy small towns or boring suburbs without any life to them. That hardly equates "safety".

Also, how in the world can you have "public drunkness" in a country that has no public spaces? If people will get drunk in a bar, they will be driven straight home by some mate and dropped in their garage. What...do you think you were going to find the drunks strolling on some boulevard? Which boulevard?...
In America boulevards are called "roads", and on roads you find cars (sometimes with drunks in them) - but certainly not walking drunks.

Otherwise leave it to Americans to do a lot of drinking on their own, at home, where nobody (save the creatures on the screen) is watching.

This article is a pathetic attempt to call the sky green.

Last edited by syracusa; 07-05-2012 at 03:49 PM..
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Burlington, Colorado
350 posts, read 848,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
I think I am a bit more inclined to trust clean statistics than that esoteric sense of "peacefulness" the article is promoting.

I can guarantee you there was a lot of peace in the air during that morning in Columbine, before the nightmare happened; and so many others that followed...

The reason why America has that sense of "peacefulness" is not because it is safe but because it is is largely made of sleepy small towns or boring suburbs without any life to them. That hardly equates "safety".
You should look up the crime rates in these sleepy small towns and lifeless suburbs. They are quite safe actually.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:01 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,443,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohazco View Post
You should look up the crime rates in these sleepy small towns and lifeless suburbs. They are quite safe actually.
They probably are saf-ER than their horrendous inner cities, ghettos and other God Forsaken places of America. However, I bet they are not safer than most European settlements, whether that's urban, suburban or rural.

To this day, I am still shocked at the fact that our house (just like most other American houses) is built in such ways that ANYONE, and I am mean ANYONE, could let themselves in, no problem, during the night! Houses without fences, windows set very low, French doors in the back (seriously???) which you could just delicately blow into and they would break upon command...
When I question my husband about this architectural insanity, usually with my eyes popping out of my head, he just shrugs and says that this is how all American houses are built and that ...yeah, we'll install some alarm system some day (not cheap). Whatever.

I suppose the only thing that keeps serial killers or house invaders from stepping into our house any night is, like some said, the fear that we might actually have a gun.
But this is a pretty idiotic fear, if you ask me, because these guys could put a bullet in our heads while we're sleeping way before we would get our crap together to reach for the gun in the dark and "defend ourselves" by shooting.

The mere fact that we would be sleeping while they would be awake should help them make the right decision for themselves; but it looks like everyone there is thinking slow, even the thieves.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,866 posts, read 5,243,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
But the U.S. also has a far higher percentage of lower-income minorities. There tends to be a very disproportionate violent crime rate in those communities for historical reasons. That's what skews the numbers.

If we're going to do an apples/apples comparison, then you have to compare typical middle-class U.S. neighborhoods with middle-class Scottish neighborhoods. And do a per capita analysis.
Why, are those lower-income minorities not part of the US? If you are going to compare two countries to each other, it makes no sense to exclude certain (significant) groups from your analysis. That is what skews the numbers.

It's like saying:

- US tertiary education is one of the worst in the developed world... if you exclude the best Universities
- Afghanistan is one of the safest places on earth... if you exclude all those areas with a violence rate above x
- Sarah Palin comes across as highly intelligent... if you ignore all the dumb stuff she said
- US crime rate isn't that high... if you exclude the communities with the highest crime rates ()

Et cetera
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:05 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,443,879 times
Reputation: 3899
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
Why, are those lower-income minorities not part of the US? If you are going to compare two countries to each other, it makes no sense to exclude certain (significant) groups from your analysis. That is what skews the numbers.

It's like saying:

- US tertiary education is one of the worst in the developed world... if you exclude the best Universities
- Afghanistan is one of the safest places on earth... if you exclude all those areas with a violence rate above x
- Sarah Palin comes across as highly intelligent... if you ignore all the dumb stuff she said
- US crime rate isn't that high... if you exclude the communities with the highest crime rates ()
Hillariously nailed.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:39 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,822,893 times
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I will just restate what others have said; it depends on the freedom.

For example property rights; The US has a varying degree of property rights ranging from not being able to paint your house a different color or have less than three trees, to doing anything you want to your property. In between this is an array of gov enforced codes ranging from construction permits to a permit to put a different door on. And at the root of it all, a person is still renting from the gov via property taxes.

I lived in another country where a person could generally do anything they wanted to do, to any property of theirs anywhere. No navigating through an array of codes and HOA BS. Your property is yours, and the culture there is generally live and let live and it takes a legislative act ever to take property away, there is no such thing as not paying property taxes and the gov seizing the property. A person can truly be self sufficient.

But a quick flip and in the US, it is generally easy to start a business, while in the other country it is nearly impossible to navigate through the BS.

Of course a quick example, but just to demonstrate freedom comes down to what specific freedom and what a person's priorities are.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:48 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,213 posts, read 107,931,771 times
Reputation: 116160
I appreciate Scotslass' input. Whenever some gun-promoting idiot brings up the "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" line, I always wonder if that's really the case. I'm told that for the most part, "outlaws" in Europe don't have guns, they use knives, if anything. The "outlaws" line, imo, is just a marketing ploy on the part of the gun industry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Also, how in the world can you have "public drunkness" in a country that has no public spaces?
Cities in the US have skid row areas where drunks hang out. Seattle has always had that problem along its downtown waterfront area, and in a public square downtown. There are so many homeless in the US now, it's hard to tell the sober homeless from the public drunks. They all tend to ask for handouts.

Syracusa: french doors are supposed to have stops at the foot of each door that lock into the floor. I suppose that's not much of a lock, but the manufacturers could make them sturdier and longer, to fit into the floor deeper, if consumers demanded it.

Some neighborhoods in US cities are downright bucolic. Others have a disproportionately higher rate of break-ins. I've lived where I never even locked my door, and I've lived where I've had to fend off home invasions, and my neighbors weren't as lucky as I was. It's not going to get any better unless the economy improves, which doesn't look likely to happen.

So, have we determined which is the only country with freedom? I vote for Sweden. Or maybe Scotland.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:52 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,443,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Of course a quick example, but just to demonstrate freedom comes down to what specific freedom and what a person's priorities are.
For me, the most epic freedom in the world is freedom from illness (largely divinity-dictated), followed by freedom from work (having to sell your time in exchange for a wage/salary or even having to build your own business and endure relentless competition-related stress).

Being able to spend every hour of your life exactly the way you see fit and without ever having to fear livelihood-related consequences...this is the only real freedom there is.

There is no country that offers such freedom - only well-chosen parents before you're born.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:55 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,213 posts, read 107,931,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
For me, the most epic freedom in the world is freedom from illness
This is huge! And the US doesn't have it. Health care in the US as well as the health care delivery system are grossly deficient. I wonder who scores in the top 5 for quality of health care? That's where I'd want to be. I'm guessing France, Germany and Switzerland.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:08 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,443,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This is huge! And the US doesn't have it. Health care in the US as well as the health care delivery system are grossly deficient. I wonder who scores in the top 5 for quality of health care? That's where I'd want to be. I'm guessing France, Germany and Switzerland.
Well...to be fair, I didn't mean "freedom to have health care". I meant "freedom from not getting sick in the first place".

Getting sick (badly) can happen anywhere nowadays. Ultimately, only "The One Above" (if religious) or Luck (if non-religious) will decide on whether we'll have that freedom or not.
As to the second...kind of the same.

All other definitions of freedom will depend on a great assortment of values.
My point was there is no country with universally agreed upon freedom.
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