Let's talk about Westerners... (rich, racist, medical)

[BigCityDreamer]

I think Argentina and maybe Chile are "borderline" western nations.

But I'd have to visit there to have a more informed opinion.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

You're absolutely right. You probably wouldn't have survived any upbringing related to Anglo-Germanic culture.

No, German culture - that I could deal with I suppose, English culture - no waaaayyy))))

I've heard Russian emigres have a hard time in Germanic countries, including Holland.

The record is very mixed - some are quite content, some are miserable.

I don't know what they say about the US. It probably depends in part on which generation you talk to.

For the most part I don't hear them complaining, since the first generation mostly lives within its own community and often has very limited contact with "indigenous people" - i.e. Americans, lol. (I mean look at Brighton Beach for example.) Those who do complain about America probably should have never got out of Russia to begin with, because they are simply too attached to certain things of their own culture.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by dunno what to put here

Again, economics, politics and social structures are still different. Argentina at a push maybe.

Where exactly do you see a major difference?
And do you consider Argentinians "westerners" then?

[ABQConvict]

I would consider much of Latin America to be non-Western because despite the Spanish language and colonialism, indigenous culture and values are prevalent. Huge exceptions, though with Argentina, most of Brazil, Uruguay, and others being Western.

Development has little to do with it.

[City Data Guy]

To me, a Western country is a country with a culture that is European in origin and has a large European-descended population. Despite this, I've heard of Eastern Europe not being considered Western. Maybe it's for cultural or political reasons; I'm not sure.

[Neutre]

Here's Swede's opinion:

Originally Posted by Neutre

"
The Western World? It is a very vague and strange concept. When you dichotomize the world you always end up in a mess, Hans Rosling says.
"

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

But erasure raises a good point. If we include Australia & NZ on the basis that they're derived from West European culture, by the same token, wouldn't we have to include all of Latin America? Or does Latin America not count because it's not industrialized, it's still developing? So following that logic, are the criteria for "Western" twofold: derived from W European culture AND industrialized? Is Portugal industrialized?

So, erasure, you said you don't consider yourself a Westerner. So...what are you?

I would actually say it's not so much that they're simply developing - was Italy in the 50s considered not Western simply because it was developing - but that Latin America has incorporated a lot more native meso-American culture than the Anglosphere colonies. Australians are basically a sub-ethnicity of British (even if not by ancestry) with only a tokenistic adoption of aboriginal culture.

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by erasure

I understand that they are "developing," however the question is - why, if they are "culturally related" to the "West" ( i.e Spain or Italy,) they are still not considered "Western" as in case of the US or Australia?
Could it be that Spain and Italy to begin with have something in their cultures that is deeply *unwestern* and thus they blend somehow with "Eastern cultures" when given a chance, instead of shaping the culture of a new nation in a very distinct, "Western" way?

That's it, it's the native influence as I alluded to in the above post that probably makes them seem a bit 'foreign.' That and the people there look 'brown' in comparison.

I think the term 'West' is kind of confusing...some take it to be Christian civilization, some Western Europe and it's colonies, some Europe, some the developed world.

[Ruth4Truth]

Bravo, Neutre! No wonder we're having so much trouble answering these questions about who is Western, who isn't!

[Montguy]

Originally Posted by erasure

Very well, then couple of questions for you;
If countries in Central America are "culturally related" to Spain/Portugal/Italy - are they considered Western countries as well; if yes/no then why?
And another question - when immigrant families are coming to Australia from all over the world, do you automatically consider these people "Western" since they live in Western country or not?
( Me for example - I live over twenty years in the United States and I have no particular problems with the culture, yet I do not consider myself a "Westerner," since I am coming from Eastern Europe.)

PS. I'd like to ask the same question Europeans and Americans - do you consider people of non-Western European background "westerners" once they start living in your country or not, and I'd like to ask all of you who came ( or whose parents came) from different countries to "Western" countries - do you consider yourself a Westerner, if yes/no - why?

I personally don't like thinking of the United States as being some sort of "offspring" of Europe.

I happen to have great respect for my country's founding, which was, more or less, an attempted divorce from its European counterparts. Of course some of Great Britain and mainland Europe's cultural tidbits stuck around, you know, like European ethnocentrism, slavery, genocide, etc., but a lot of America's better founding principles and philosophies were not, in fact, patented by Europeans, despite what they may believe to the contrary.