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Old 08-05-2012, 04:48 PM
 
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When every you think of a secular Muslim country, Turkey is the first to come to mind. How about Kazakhstan? Is Kazakhstan more secular than Turkey?

Last edited by Vichel; 08-05-2012 at 11:59 PM..
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
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I always thought Kazakhstan was like 50% islam and 40% orthodox christian not sure tho but i do know 90-95% of Turkey is muslim.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:45 AM
 
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It's mostly a cliché/stereotype that Turkey is soo secular. It is compared to places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine, Belarus and Libya, however, not "secular" and "free" at all. Try to talk about specific problems in Turkey (concerning Islam, Erdogan or Armenian genocide) and you'll be arrested or even assasinated. Heck, even in places with large Turkish populations (like Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands etc.) it's hard to discuss issues like that because the Turkish-descendants will protest massively.
Istanbul and surroundings are different, more open-minded and tolerant, though.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Canada
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People say Turkey is secular because secularism is an explicit part of the national myth. The republic established in the wake of the first world war had secularism as a central tenet and the idea of a secular state is expressed in many of its institutions. That said, it seems less secular than in Kazakhstan because religions in Turkey were never repressed by the state in the way that they were in the Soviet Union. Kazakhstan, as a post-Soviet country, is coming not from a secular background but from an enforced Atheist-communist one. In this way it's farther from the familiar experiences of Western secular thought and so secularism is not the word that comes to mind when people think of it. Turkey is a democracy and secularism works in a similar way there as in the West. Kazakhstan is a authoritarian state and religion, after a relatively short period of freedom following the fall of the Soviet union, is controlled and monitored by the state like most other things.

Kazakhstan: New Law on Religion Enacted | Global Legal Monitor | Law Library of Congress | Library of Congress

Kazakhstan is more like China in its religious situation than, say, the UK.
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:28 PM
 
994 posts, read 1,238,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brabham12 View Post
It's mostly a cliché/stereotype that Turkey is soo secular. It is compared to places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine, Belarus and Libya, however, not "secular" and "free" at all. Try to talk about specific problems in Turkey (concerning Islam, Erdogan or Armenian genocide) and you'll be arrested or even assasinated. Heck, even in places with large Turkish populations (like Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands etc.) it's hard to discuss issues like that because the Turkish-descendants will protest massively.
Istanbul and surroundings are different, more open-minded and tolerant, though.
It's a bit difficult to take this post seriously when you appear to think that Ukraine and Belarus are Muslim countries.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by George & Bill View Post
It's a bit difficult to take this post seriously when you appear to think that Ukraine and Belarus are Muslim countries.
They are not Muslim, but they are as "free" and "democratic" as places like Afghanistan. Thats what i meant.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by brabham12 View Post
They are not Muslim, but they are as "free" and "democratic" as places like Afghanistan. Thats what i meant.
Whether they are free and whether they are secular are two separate things.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:46 AM
 
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This thread is terribly confused. The OP makes no attempt to distinguish countries that are constitutionally secular, such as France and Turkey, and those in which the population and most institutions are highly secularised, but which retain an established religion, such as the UK.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:55 AM
 
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If secular means "I don't give a damn to religion" than Kazakhstan sure fits. After all, it almost completely embraced Russian atheist-paganist culture.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by brabham12 View Post
It is compared to places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine, Belarus and Libya
That's really fun... and your ignorant explanation doesn't really make it less so
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